Thread

Turn off Apple Intelligence on macOS 27 and get its disk space back

515 points · 323 comments · privacyisntdead

ryandrake · 1791149394 · focus · HN ↗
Reminds me of all the de-crufting you've always needed to do when you install Windows. Looks like we've gotten to the point on macOS too, where you need to run third party scripts on a new OS installation to gain back control of your system resources and remove unwanted crapware.
1. 2muchcoffeeman · 1791150186 · focus · HN ↗
  On windows you got garbage like trial versions of Blah software.
  This is a fully functioning feature that people don’t like for what ever reason.
  1. 2III7 · 1791150657 · focus · HN ↗
    Fully functional feature consuming multiple gigabytes of storage and has questionable functional value. Maybe people don't want bloated AI crap on their desktops?
    2muchcoffeeman · 1791150898 · focus · HN ↗
    I’m not making any judgement on whether you should or should not like the feature.
    I’m stating that the Windows problem was very different. Your machine would be loaded up with software for various vendors that the manufacturer did deals with to lower the price of the machine. They were all trials.
    buran77 · 1791153989 · focus · HN ↗
    > I’m stating that the Windows problem was very different. [...] They were all trials.
    Except it isn't and they weren't. MS Windows never came with trials, it came with shortcuts. OEMs bundled with their Windows image more of their (crap) full software than trials.
    And to this day debloating tools are tasked with removing full MS bundled (or auto installed) software like Teams, Outlook, DevHome, Copilot, M365, Recall, etc. So exactly the same problem as Apple Intelligence. Whether you consider it useful is up to you. Whether it's bundled is up to Apple.
    ternaryoperator · 1791177884 · focus · HN ↗
    > [On Windows] Your machine would be loaded up with software for various vendors that the manufacturer did deals with to lower the price of the machine.
    So the only difference is that the vendor here is Apple itself. Honestly, not seeing much difference.
    Stitch4223 · 1791152353 · focus · HN ↗
    “Some people” arguments always hold true.
    Old classmates back in the day used to hate the 128 × 128 px icons macOS shipped. A waste of space for eye candy.
    12 GB is at most 4.68% of your Mac. Improving on Apple Intelligence is something of value, as is consumerizing local-first AI.
    We’re not talking adware here.
    verandaguy · 1791153080 · focus · HN ↗
    > Improving on Apple Intelligence is something of value
    Not if you didn't use apple intelligence in the first place (and/or aren't interested in using it going forward).
    > as is consumerizing local-first AI
    If and only if there is actual demand for it. If most users do not want this, it's a bad feature.
    samudrijan · 1791155531 · focus · HN ↗
    That’s a whole 4% of my disc. Get that out of there.
    appletrotter · 1791156054 · focus · HN ↗
    Apple's AI and harnesses are trash and a complete waste of space
    Also suggesting that sacrificing 1/20 of your disk space is NBD is crazy. I have to prune space on my drive all the time because macs ship with the least amount of disk space that apple imagines they can get away with as possible.
    groundzeros2015 · 1791156148 · focus · HN ↗
    Are you arguing that the icons did not occupy a scarce resource that could have been used for other things? Or that the value is so obvious it we worth it?
    athoneycutt · 1791157054 · focus · HN ↗
    Useful or not there should be an option to turn it off and get space back (plus avoid LLM) if you want.
    bloqs · 1791157306 · focus · HN ↗
    4% of my disk on a computer with soldered storage hardware?
    Is the marketing really getting this good?
    EA-3167 · 1791157871 · focus · HN ↗
    This is going to shock you I suspect, it seems to be something many here fail to consider in any number of circumstances: You don't represent a majority of anything. A majority of people buying Macs, a majority of people they market to, a majority of who they design for, a majority of who they product test against. In fact I'd venture to guess that you like many here represent a vocal portion of a tiny minority that are almost impossible to please without the sort of full customization of hardware and software you want. It's much easier to neglect that small market in favor of the one that prints them money, and I'm always baffled that so many don't understand that.
    People here misunderstand just how different they are to the norm. "I want x, y, z to be free so I can modify it!" Most people buying Apple products don't, hell most people buying any phone doesn't want that, they want a smartphone that works out of the box and never fails to be a smartphone. The walled garden is largely a feature and not a bug, it's just not a feature you want, just like the aesthetics, social factors, ease of use, etc don't matter to you as much as function.
    Most people aren't like that.
    klrefg · 1791180767 · focus · HN ↗
    > a majority of people they market to, a majority of who they design for, a majority of who they product test against
    As if Apple is always right and knows what their users want. Sure they are more often than other companies but stuff like the touchbar and Siri itself for that matter prove that they do in fact make mistakes.
    isityettime · 1791159476 · focus · HN ↗
    5% is huge. And the way app bundles work on macOS, tons and tons of disk space gets burned up for each application relative to on an OS like Linux distros, so each GB doesn't go as far in the first place.
    It's also not the full extent of disk usage by built-in apps which aren't removable by normal means on macOS. An empty macOS installation is like 35 GB. NixOS is not known for being particularly space efficient, but 30-40 GB is how much space I use on it for the OS and all applications, including a ton of developer tools, on my graphical systems. For the base OS with a full fat desktop environment, most Linux distros have you looking at less than 10 GB. So this comes as a massive increase on an OS that already burns a ton of disk space before you even get to touch it.
    quaddoggy · 1791161993 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes, but it’s death by a thousand cuts. I encourage you to see how much BS space is taken up by iMovie or Live Photos or whatever on your iPhone. If every team at Apple wants their percentage you end up with less.
    mahboi · 1791166938 · focus · HN ↗
    iMovie isn't installed by default, and live photos are an option at least. Apple Intelligence requires ripping out with sketchy scripts.
    jtbayly · 1791162668 · focus · HN ↗
    Wrong. 12GB is potentially 9.4% of your disk. At the very least, the original M1 MacBook Air (perhaps others) could be purchased with 128GB of storage.
    52sk · 1791173252 · focus · HN ↗
    The M1 MacBook Air did not have a 128 GB storage option.
    alwillis · 1791183237 · focus · HN ↗
    > The M1 MacBook Air did not have a 128 GB storage option.
    There was an 128 GB model [1] that was only sold to schools.
    [1]: <a href="https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/specs/macbook-air-m1-8-core-7-core-gpu-13-retina-display-2020-specs.html" rel="nofollow">https://everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/specs/macbook...
    penskymaterial · 1791165370 · focus · HN ↗
    Bruh the entire Mac OS used to fit in 20 GB and nothing they have added since has meaningfully improved my life, though some has made it more difficult.
    That extra space is for my media.
  2. dsego · 1791150864 · focus · HN ↗
    IE is also a fully functioning feature, so are snap packages.
  3. isityettime · 1791151146 · focus · HN ↗
    People have been doing the same thing with Cortana on Windows for ages. "Debloating" tools don't primarily target OEM add-ons like free trials of this or that; they very much target Windows components.
    hansonkd · 1791151743 · focus · HN ↗
    Cortana was heavily integrated with bing. It was essentially a way to get people to use bing.
    knollimar · 1791155110 · focus · HN ↗
    I swear didn't they lose a big antitrust case for doing this once already?
    a96 · 1791182595 · focus · HN ↗
    When have any antitrust cases have had any effect on Microsoft?
  4. nalekberov · 1791151193 · focus · HN ↗
    "fully functioning feature" -- more like fully functioning forceware/crapware which holds significant space.
    So, it's not for "what ever reason", it's quite a reason to reject this.
  5. burnte · 1791151407 · focus · HN ↗
    On Windows there are lots of fully features features/applications people turn off. It's not all trial versions and it's disingenuous to pretend it's just that.
  6. ramijames · 1791151433 · focus · HN ↗
    I just don't use it. I'm on a laptop with 500gb. I don't want to lose on so much disk space for a feature I won't use.
  7. Grombobulous · 1791151723 · focus · HN ↗
    Automatically downloading AI models into disk space with no user-facing way to turn it off is especially hostile considering Apple as vendor of both the OS and the hardware is the same entity that overcharges for non-upgradable SSD storage in their machines.
    penskymaterial · 1791152216 · focus · HN ↗
    They'll rent you more iCloud space when you fill up the SSD. That's good, holistic customer service.
    stingraycharles · 1791152608 · focus · HN ↗
    That doesn’t work unless you’re actually able to offload stuff from disk, which is only the case when you store stuff in your iCloud Drive / photos / etc.
    Case in point: the AI models can’t be offloaded to iCloud.
    penskymaterial · 1791153555 · focus · HN ↗
    Maybe someone can explain why their SSDs, when not soldered down, are a proprietary form factor and can't be replaced with a standard M.2 device?
    theodric · 1791154236 · focus · HN ↗
    To gain the same effect as one that is soldered down, while giving themselves a simpler portfolio of assemblies and a cheaper FRU to swap in the event of failure.
    m4rtink · 1791158213 · focus · HN ↗
    So vendor locking to make more money. :)
    stingraycharles · 1791154737 · focus · HN ↗
    I believe they have a special kind of SSD, where the controller is locked into the motherboard. This is serial locked in some form.
    (Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is how I understand it)
    Grombobulous · 1791158695 · focus · HN ↗
    My understanding is that the controller is integrated into the SoC.
    You can actually replace the storage on Apple desktops but it’s a bit of a pain and isn’t as cheap as m.2 2280 drives.
    I don’t really know why Apple does this when their solution doesn’t seem to offer an obvious advantage. They aren’t faster than existing solutions or anything like that.
    throooooo · 1791160112 · focus · HN ↗
    Vendor lock-in increases their profit margins. If people could purchase a 128GB Mac mini and install their own 2TB drives they wouldn't make as much money.
    odo1242 · 1791162649 · focus · HN ↗
    It’s not actually serial locked, you can replace SSDs by desoldering and resoldering a NAND chip. But basically their SSD controller is integrated into the M-series chips (mostly because cheaper, less connectors to manufacture). But it’s a very specialized process
    stingraycharles · 1791163105 · focus · HN ↗
    I think most consumers would happily pay a bit extra for these controllers if it meant that they could manually upgrade their SSDs. I can’t help but have the feeling that it’s also quite convenient for Apple that all this stuff is effectively non-replaceable / upgradable.
    I don’t think the benefits are the same as with their RAM being part of their SoC, as that gives them real speed improvements, right?
    floydnoel · 1791166986 · focus · HN ↗
    I disagree. I think 90% or more wouldn't care.
    Barbing · 1791173936 · focus · HN ↗
    Indeed,
    > manually upgrade
    or “average Apple customer”, pick one
    btw something beautiful about the YouTube videos of shops in China doing those SSD deletes with the power tools
    ascorbic · 1791178542 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd be amazed if even 1% care
    JumpCrisscross · 1791174222 · focus · HN ↗
    > it’s also quite convenient for Apple that all this stuff is effectively non-replaceable / upgradable
    On the other hand, I’m happily banging away on my ca. 2020 M1 MacBook Pro. It just got a warranty service, free to me, that replaced the screen. It will probably get replaced around 2030. That simply isn’t the norm with the alternatives.
    The hypothesis that this is self serving isn’t supported by the evidence. Instead it’s more parsimonious to conclude that this is Apple being Apple with pushing design to the limit when it comes to executing a vision. User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned.
    klrefg · 1791180255 · focus · HN ↗
    > User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned.
    Macs were quite repairable and most parts were replaceable until ~2012. So it’s hard to blame Jobs for that.
    lm411 · 1791181292 · focus · HN ↗
    I've had good luck with AppleCare and warranty service, and most of my Macbook's have lasted well.
    On the other hand my sons 2021 Mac Mini M1 with an estimated < 20% writes remaining on the SSD is not looking very cool. In fact, rather disappointing and the computer will be junk soon due to the SSD only.
    kalleboo · 1791182990 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
    LoganDark · 1791169800 · focus · HN ↗
    Note that before the Mac mini socketed SSDs, Retina MacBook Pros had socketed SSDs as well. They were not standard M.2 either though, you had to get specific aftermarket parts from the likes of OWC
    dwaite · 1791173507 · focus · HN ↗
    My understanding is that they are not SSDs - they lack a disk controller, instead providing flash memory more directly to the SoC
    tavavex · 1791159218 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but what you're calling "good, holistic customer service" is more commonly described as "inventing a problem and then selling you the solution".
    mancerayder · 1791161241 · focus · HN ↗
    Google is doing the same on Android - there's no native tool to search for large images and videos by date. There's a Purchase Google Cloud Storage type of header that pops up when you start to get full, and you can delete whatever is quick to find or remember to delete, like WhatsApp media, which you find through an annoying directory structure with a broken tool. It's terrible.
    saghm · 1791165039 · focus · HN ↗
    Gosh, maybe there are two companies that are both doing the same bad thing, rather than the thing being good?
    nozzlegear · 1791158303 · focus · HN ↗
    Like it or not, Siri is one of the features of macOS and has been for a long time. It's not just some arbitrary AI model that Apple decided to store on your disk.
    jtbayly · 1791162458 · focus · HN ↗
    “Siri” has existed for a long time, yes. Apple Intelligence, not so much. It really is just an arbitrary AI model, since I’ve had Siri for a decade and not needed whatever this extra 13GB model is.
    nozzlegear · 1791166453 · focus · HN ↗
    You've had a previous version of Siri for a decade that didn't do what the current version of Siri does. Whether you use it or not is not germane to whether the model is justified – it's what Siri needs to do what Apple wants it to do.
    klrefg · 1791180466 · focus · HN ↗
    > Whether you use it or not is not germane to whether the model is justified
    Huh.. well yeah, who cares what users need or want. Perfect attitude for a company making money by selling products to consumers.
    saghm · 1791165129 · focus · HN ↗
    And yet somehow they managed to not take up 12 GB of disk space that required running multiple manual steps to get back for a while.
    nozzlegear · 1791166492 · focus · HN ↗
    Superfluous details
    klrefg · 1791180509 · focus · HN ↗
    The majority of Macs sold have tiny SSDs. So not really.
    dominotw · 1791165309 · focus · HN ↗
    macos has tons for features. you expect them to provide a way for users individually turn off each feature in the os ?
    hibikir · 1791166981 · focus · HN ↗
    Many arbitrary features can be turned off: I haven't turned on Siri on a phone for many years, because the utility was minimal vs the annoyance of errors in voice activation. Taking very significant space in your drive is just as important. I can uninstall Pages and Garage Band. I should be able to uninstall apple intelligence
    ctippett · 1791177627 · focus · HN ↗
    I can uninstall Pages and Garage Band.
    Not Chess.app though!
    alsetmusic · 1791168379 · focus · HN ↗
    If it consumes valuable disk space (especially with current insane market prices), yes.
    klrefg · 1791180369 · focus · HN ↗
    To be fair.. why not?
    simondotau · 1791177087 · focus · HN ↗
    Meanwhile, other people are complaining about companies making you rely on cloud compute for AI. The exciting thing about Apple Intelligence is the prospect of writing apps with the assumption that it exists on everyone’s computer.
    pprotas · 1791177491 · focus · HN ↗
    You can’t assume that though, Apple Intelligence is not supported on everyone’s computer
    slipheen · 1791179359 · focus · HN ↗
    Apple Intelligence, for better or worse, runs on every Apple silicon Mac. Any machine which can run macOs 27 can run the local models. Some machines may run better local models if they gave 12+GB of ram, but I don't think it's accurate to say that Apple Intelligence is not supported universally.
    In this context we are talking about macOS 27. If your app requires 27, then it can correctly assume every machine will work.
    Grimblewald · 1791179219 · focus · HN ↗
    there's a third option youre missing here that people are consistent on: AI shpuld be opt in and nothing prevents opt in being default. AI isnt reliable or universally useful enough to include it defacto.
    fmbb · 1791180894 · focus · HN ↗
    Disk space is there to be used.
    Are these files particularly hard to clean out if your disk is getting full and you need the space?
    [deleted] · 1791181311 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    asdfsa32 · 1791181327 · focus · HN ↗
    Particularly hard for who? Why hard at all for anyone? Don't let the overtone window to slip.
    mrheosuper · 1791181653 · focus · HN ↗
    How about stop deciding for me. I love to see my disk free space.
  8. [deleted] · 1791152105 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
  9. penskymaterial · 1791152119 · focus · HN ↗
    This simply isn't true.
    Trial versions are installed by the OEMs so that's not a Windows problem.
    Microsoft has given you the tools (Group Policy) for the last 25+ years to customize most of this.
    My last install of Windows 11 was shockingly frustrating but with a little patience and discipline it's customized to Windows 7 levels of sanity using nothing but out of the box tools. Shockingly, it works better than writing angry blog posts about it.
    They have to give you a choice because they have surly enterprise customers who would be upset otherwise.
    Terr_ · 1791157002 · focus · HN ↗
    > Microsoft has given you the tools (Group Policy) for the last 25+ years to customize most of this.
    Morally, why should Home users have to pay a $70 upgrade (or whatever it is) to the company extorting them with forced-on crap they didn't originally have and don't want?
    ericmay · 1791162178 · focus · HN ↗
    It is a Windows problem because Microsoft allowed OEMs to do it and when you bought a computer, it included Windows and from the end user perspective Windows thus included this software.
    > Microsoft has given you the tools (Group Policy) for the last 25+ years to customize most of this.
    Most people including me don’t know what this is and more importantly they just don’t care. The frame of reference is “I buy (vendor) laptop and Windows comes with all this stupid stuff I have to uninstall”. It is never “I bought Windows and I just use the Group Policy to do XYZ, and then….”.
  10. [deleted] · 1791152504 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
  11. Wazzymandias · 1791155015 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't need a more bloated operating system or greater resource usage for things I don't want, use, or need. i'd prefer a calendar app that doesn't suck, and an OS that doesn't decrease performance by 5-15% on every new upgrade for slightly older machines
  12. SAI_Peregrinus · 1791155314 · focus · HN ↗
    It's the same reason IDEs have been largely supplanted by plugin-based editors & discrete toolchains. Integrating everything the user might want wastes lots of resources and includes things the user will never want.
  13. mahboi · 1791159813 · focus · HN ↗
    That's how it was in like 2000-2008. Modern Windows bloat is the OS itself.
  14. frollogaston · 1791161673 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't like it cause it uses 12GB
  15. saghm · 1791164952 · focus · HN ↗
    Maybe they don't like it because they don't have any desire to use it, and they didn't ask for it?
  16. JumpCrisscross · 1791174057 · focus · HN ↗
    > a fully functioning feature that people don’t like for what ever reason
    I’m genuinely struggling to use it on my Mac.
  17. itake · 1791177843 · focus · HN ↗
    I currently have alternative versions of these tools. I would rather run the latest qwen model or SOTA models than whatever outdated model Apple wants me to use.

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