Thread

1. ryandrake · 1791149394 · focus · HN ↗

   Reminds me of all the de-crufting you've always needed to do when you install Windows. Looks like we've gotten to the point on macOS too, where you need to run third party scripts on a new OS installation to gain back control of your system resources and remove unwanted crapware.

   1. 2muchcoffeeman · 1791150186 · focus · HN ↗

      On windows you got garbage like trial versions of Blah software.

      This is a fully functioning feature that people don’t like for what ever reason.

      1. Grombobulous · 1791151723 · focus · HN ↗

         Automatically downloading AI models into disk space with no user-facing way to turn it off is especially hostile considering Apple as vendor of both the OS and the hardware is the same entity that overcharges for non-upgradable SSD storage in their machines.

         1. penskymaterial · 1791152216 · focus · HN ↗

            They'll rent you more iCloud space when you fill up the SSD. That's good, holistic customer service.

            1. stingraycharles · 1791152608 · focus · HN ↗

               That doesn’t work unless you’re actually able to offload stuff from disk, which is only the case when you store stuff in your iCloud Drive / photos / etc.

               Case in point: the AI models can’t be offloaded to iCloud.

               1. penskymaterial · 1791153555 · focus · HN ↗

                  Maybe someone can explain why their SSDs, when not soldered down, are a proprietary form factor and can't be replaced with a standard M.2 device?

                  1. theodric · 1791154236 · focus · HN ↗

                     To gain the same effect as one that is soldered down, while giving themselves a simpler portfolio of assemblies and a cheaper FRU to swap in the event of failure.

                     1. m4rtink · 1791158213 · focus · HN ↗

                        So vendor locking to make more money. :)
                  2. stingraycharles · 1791154737 · focus · HN ↗

                     I believe they have a special kind of SSD, where the controller is locked into the motherboard. This is serial locked in some form.

                     (Correct me if I’m wrong, but this is how I understand it)

                     1. Grombobulous · 1791158695 · focus · HN ↗

                        My understanding is that the controller is integrated into the SoC.

                        You can actually replace the storage on Apple desktops but it’s a bit of a pain and isn’t as cheap as m.2 2280 drives.

                        I don’t really know why Apple does this when their solution doesn’t seem to offer an obvious advantage. They aren’t faster than existing solutions or anything like that.

                        1. throooooo · 1791160112 · focus · HN ↗

                           Vendor lock-in increases their profit margins. If people could purchase a 128GB Mac mini and install their own 2TB drives they wouldn't make as much money.
                     2. odo1242 · 1791162649 · focus · HN ↗

                        It’s not actually serial locked, you can replace SSDs by desoldering and resoldering a NAND chip. But basically their SSD controller is integrated into the M-series chips (mostly because cheaper, less connectors to manufacture). But it’s a very specialized process

                        1. stingraycharles · 1791163105 · focus · HN ↗

                           I think most consumers would happily pay a bit extra for these controllers if it meant that they could manually upgrade their SSDs. I can’t help but have the feeling that it’s also quite convenient for Apple that all this stuff is effectively non-replaceable / upgradable.

                           I don’t think the benefits are the same as with their RAM being part of their SoC, as that gives them real speed improvements, right?

                           1. floydnoel · 1791166986 · focus · HN ↗

                              I disagree. I think 90% or more wouldn't care.

                              1. Barbing · 1791173936 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Indeed,

                                 > manually upgrade

                                 or “average Apple customer”, pick one

                                 btw something beautiful about the YouTube videos of shops in China doing those SSD deletes with the power tools

                              2. ascorbic · 1791178542 · focus · HN ↗

                                 I'd be amazed if even 1% care
                           2. JumpCrisscross · 1791174222 · focus · HN ↗

                              > it’s also quite convenient for Apple that all this stuff is effectively non-replaceable / upgradable

                              On the other hand, I’m happily banging away on my ca. 2020 M1 MacBook Pro. It just got a warranty service, free to me, that replaced the screen. It will probably get replaced around 2030. That simply isn’t the norm with the alternatives.

                              The hypothesis that this is self serving isn’t supported by the evidence. Instead it’s more parsimonious to conclude that this is Apple being Apple with pushing design to the limit when it comes to executing a vision. User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned.

                              1. klrefg · 1791180255 · focus · HN ↗

                                 > User-upgradable parts have not been part of that vision since Jobs returned.

                                 Macs were quite repairable and most parts were replaceable until ~2012. So it’s hard to blame Jobs for that.

                              2. lm411 · 1791181292 · focus · HN ↗

                                 I've had good luck with AppleCare and warranty service, and most of my Macbook's have lasted well.

                                 On the other hand my sons 2021 Mac Mini M1 with an estimated < 20% writes remaining on the SSD is not looking very cool. In fact, rather disappointing and the computer will be junk soon due to the SSD only.

                              3. kalleboo · 1791182990 · focus · HN ↗

                                 [delayed]
                     3. LoganDark · 1791169800 · focus · HN ↗

                        Note that before the Mac mini socketed SSDs, Retina MacBook Pros had socketed SSDs as well. They were not standard M.2 either though, you had to get specific aftermarket parts from the likes of OWC
                  3. dwaite · 1791173507 · focus · HN ↗

                     My understanding is that they are not SSDs - they lack a disk controller, instead providing flash memory more directly to the SoC
            2. tavavex · 1791159218 · focus · HN ↗

               I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but what you're calling "good, holistic customer service" is more commonly described as "inventing a problem and then selling you the solution".

               1. mancerayder · 1791161241 · focus · HN ↗

                  Google is doing the same on Android - there's no native tool to search for large images and videos by date. There's a Purchase Google Cloud Storage type of header that pops up when you start to get full, and you can delete whatever is quick to find or remember to delete, like WhatsApp media, which you find through an annoying directory structure with a broken tool. It's terrible.

                  1. saghm · 1791165039 · focus · HN ↗

                     Gosh, maybe there are two companies that are both doing the same bad thing, rather than the thing being good?
         2. nozzlegear · 1791158303 · focus · HN ↗

            Like it or not, Siri is one of the features of macOS and has been for a long time. It's not just some arbitrary AI model that Apple decided to store on your disk.

            1. jtbayly · 1791162458 · focus · HN ↗

               “Siri” has existed for a long time, yes. Apple Intelligence, not so much. It really is just an arbitrary AI model, since I’ve had Siri for a decade and not needed whatever this extra 13GB model is.

               1. nozzlegear · 1791166453 · focus · HN ↗

                  You've had a previous version of Siri for a decade that didn't do what the current version of Siri does. Whether you use it or not is not germane to whether the model is justified – it's what Siri needs to do what Apple wants it to do.

                  1. klrefg · 1791180466 · focus · HN ↗

                     > Whether you use it or not is not germane to whether the model is justified

                     Huh.. well yeah, who cares what users need or want. Perfect attitude for a company making money by selling products to consumers.

            2. saghm · 1791165129 · focus · HN ↗

               And yet somehow they managed to not take up 12 GB of disk space that required running multiple manual steps to get back for a while.

               1. nozzlegear · 1791166492 · focus · HN ↗

                  Superfluous details

                  1. klrefg · 1791180509 · focus · HN ↗

                     The majority of Macs sold have tiny SSDs. So not really.
         3. dominotw · 1791165309 · focus · HN ↗

            macos has tons for features. you expect them to provide a way for users individually turn off each feature in the os ?

            1. hibikir · 1791166981 · focus · HN ↗

               Many arbitrary features can be turned off: I haven't turned on Siri on a phone for many years, because the utility was minimal vs the annoyance of errors in voice activation. Taking very significant space in your drive is just as important. I can uninstall Pages and Garage Band. I should be able to uninstall apple intelligence

               1. ctippett · 1791177627 · focus · HN ↗

                    I can uninstall Pages and Garage Band.
                  
                  

                  Not Chess.app though!
            2. alsetmusic · 1791168379 · focus · HN ↗

               If it consumes valuable disk space (especially with current insane market prices), yes.
            3. klrefg · 1791180369 · focus · HN ↗

               To be fair.. why not?
         4. simondotau · 1791177087 · focus · HN ↗

            Meanwhile, other people are complaining about companies making you rely on cloud compute for AI. The exciting thing about Apple Intelligence is the prospect of writing apps with the assumption that it exists on everyone’s computer.

            1. pprotas · 1791177491 · focus · HN ↗

               You can’t assume that though, Apple Intelligence is not supported on everyone’s computer

               1. slipheen · 1791179359 · focus · HN ↗

                  Apple Intelligence, for better or worse, runs on every Apple silicon Mac. Any machine which can run macOs 27 can run the local models. Some machines may run better local models if they gave 12+GB of ram, but I don't think it's accurate to say that Apple Intelligence is not supported universally.

                  In this context we are talking about macOS 27. If your app requires 27, then it can correctly assume every machine will work.

            2. Grimblewald · 1791179219 · focus · HN ↗

               there's a third option youre missing here that people are consistent on: AI shpuld be opt in and nothing prevents opt in being default. AI isnt reliable or universally useful enough to include it defacto.
         5. fmbb · 1791180894 · focus · HN ↗

            Disk space is there to be used.

            Are these files particularly hard to clean out if your disk is getting full and you need the space?

            1. [deleted] · 1791181311 · focus · HN ↗

               [deleted]

            2. asdfsa32 · 1791181327 · focus · HN ↗

               Particularly hard for who? Why hard at all for anyone? Don't let the overtone window to slip.
            3. mrheosuper · 1791181653 · focus · HN ↗

               How about stop deciding for me. I love to see my disk free space.

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