Thread

California farmers are struggling to sell grapes as demand for wine drops

389 points · 987 comments · randycupertino

ortusdux · 1790627747 · focus · HN ↗
<a href="https://wineinstitute.org/press-releases/one-year-later/" rel="nofollow">https://wineinstitute.org/press-releases/one-year-later/
<a href="https://www.fas.usda.gov/data/commodities/wine-related-products-0" rel="nofollow">https://www.fas.usda.gov/data/commodities/wine-related-produ...
1. randycupertino · 1790628352 · focus · HN ↗
  - Tariffs so less international demand for US wine
  - Canadian boycots of US products due to tariff wars
  - Boomer wine buyers dying off
  - younger generations drinking less overall and being less into wine
  - everyone on GLP-1s drinking less
  1. ortusdux · 1790628432 · focus · HN ↗
    - Legal pot
    reactordev · 1790628748 · focus · HN ↗
    - The economy
    sublinear · 1790643724 · focus · HN ↗
    ???
    THC has never been an alternative to alcohol. There are definitely people who prefer it instead of alcohol and there are people who use both.
    I don't know anyone who thinks they're interchangeable unless they're solely looking at it as a political/functional slot to fill.
    If you force a drunk who hates pot to switch and vice-versa, they genuinely might want to murder you, but why make this a wedge issue?
    zug_zug · 1790643977 · focus · HN ↗
    I think gummies are a superior (more pleasant, healthier, safer) social lubricant than alcohol and I’m sure I’m not alone
    sublinear · 1790644141 · focus · HN ↗
    > I think gummies are a superior (more pleasant, healthier, safer) social lubricant than alcohol and I’m sure I’m not alone
    Yes, exactly you're proving my point. You see this as a slot to fill and are making it a wedge issue.
    kelnos · 1790650903 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't think anyone's making anything into a wedge issue in this discussion, except perhaps you.
    sublinear · 1790729418 · focus · HN ↗
    You got here after the dogpile.
    boringg · 1790648694 · focus · HN ↗
    Equivalent risk. No way is THC healthier than alcohol - both in moderation not at excess.
    Then its a personal preference thing.
    MrDrMcCoy · 1790651289 · focus · HN ↗
    Alcohol poisoning is a thing. I have yet to hear of a case of canabanoid poisoning. Canabanoids also don't lower your inhibition, which is why DUIs went down in states that legalized. The difference in risk could not be more stark.
    boringg · 1790689155 · focus · HN ↗
    I said in moderation please read my comments.
    MrDrMcCoy · 1790700880 · focus · HN ↗
    I did. Cannabis in excess has not shown to be harmful.
    NewJazz · 1790655932 · focus · HN ↗
    That's a pretty big claim. Alcohol's harm to major organs like the liver is pretty well known. What kind of harm does THC/CBD cause when consumed orally?
    boringg · 1790689457 · focus · HN ↗
    harm to major organs >> at high doses not at low doses but agree there is an increased risk to liver on alcohol.
    Gummies put a cognitive burden. If you are smoking that puts a fair burden on the cardiovascular system. High dose THC run a risk of psychosis.
    Look im not pro either I'm however not in this lala land of believing there isn't any negative effects of THC especially over time.
    NewJazz · 1790697094 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    mathgeek · 1790644380 · focus · HN ↗
    I believe they mean having alternative choices in what one can legally consume to get high/drunk/etc.
    sublinear · 1790644487 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't know any pot smoker who ever gave a flying crap if it was legal. Let's not whitewash the past. It became legal for a reason.
    If you feel this way about pot, have you not also considered that similar already occurred with alcohol roughly a century ago (in the USA)? Why do you think cops avoid overpolicing bars when they'd be entirely in their right to do so?
    Personal use of drugs is the clearest example in all of criminal justice where people of all beliefs have to admit there really is a much bigger and widespread mental health problem at the root of it. This is very very far from a new topic. There's nothing special about pot.
    mathgeek · 1790645463 · focus · HN ↗
    Sorry, but what way do you think I feel about pot? I was just providing anecdotal examples to explain the reasoning of why pot being legal could have an impact on demand for wine. It’s just a demand curve relationship, not my personal opinions on the legality of pot.
    For the pot smokers who care about legality, it does matter for folks who have to take drug tests for their jobs. Several of my good friends stopped using it when that was a concern.
    jasonwatkinspdx · 1790646503 · focus · HN ↗
    > I don't know any pot smoker who ever gave a flying crap if it was legal.
    I know plenty.
    Generally the fit the pattern of being familiar with it from exposure a few times as teenagers or such and liked it, but it wasn't a big enough deal for them to want to find and maintain a relationship with a drug dealer, concerns that if they pulled it out at a party it might lead to consequences within their social or professional circle, etc.
    0cf8612b2e1e · 1790649597 · focus · HN ↗
    I don’t know what GP is smoking. Most people do not maintain a relationship with a drug dealer. Legal access available from a convenient store front unlocks plenty of users who did not want the legal risk or hassle.
    tokioyoyo · 1790647357 · focus · HN ↗
    The biggest case you can follow is Canada. Even wine-drinking elderly sometimes switch to cannabis, due to lessened hangovers. Also, removing the friction is a huge boost to basically any industry.
    Brian_K_White · 1790651400 · focus · HN ↗
    I happily smoke pot while illegal if it happens to be around and someone else provided it and I don't have to do drive that day or do anything the next day. I chipped in or did favors but never bought it directly myself, nor posessed any. None oin my car, my house etc.
    So that means very very infrequently.
    I totally like it and the only reason I stayed away was it wasn't worth the risk.
    Even today I don't risk it because sometimes I drive across many state lines and I don't want to worry about keeping track of where I might possibly get in trouble if I piss off a cop at a traffic stop, which I am likely to do.
    NewJazz · 1790655820 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
    mc32 · 1790644649 · focus · HN ↗
    Before it was legalized people went down to the 7-11 to buy beer/wine all legal, maybe a bum to steer around.
    They didn't want to get to know scuzzy dudes selling pot or driving to areas of town where at night they have street takeovers to score some pot.
    Now those scaredy cats have legal dispensaries from which to obtain their MJ legally. So they might opt for pot these days.
    dfxm12 · 1790646961 · focus · HN ↗
    There are definitely people who prefer it instead of alcohol
    Consider that these people may not want to break the law or didn't know what their preference until they were legally able to try it.
    randycupertino · 1790647513 · focus · HN ↗
    There absolutely is a contingent of "wine mom" types who used to enjoy a glass of wine in the evenings but have transitioned to gummies or other edibles before bed.
    kelnos · 1790650525 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
  2. philipallstar · 1790631082 · focus · HN ↗
    > - Tariffs so less international demand for US wine
    Why's this?
    legitster · 1790631350 · focus · HN ↗
    I feel like this is a trolling question. Demand for US exports has never been lower in recent history.
    philipallstar · 1790632932 · focus · HN ↗
    Feelings aside, I was just asking a question because I didn't understand the link.
    Borealid · 1790633881 · focus · HN ↗
    Countries other than the US have, for reasons that you may choose to find mysterious, imposed tariffs on products exported from the US.
    Tariffs raise the consumer-visible price of those goods. This then, due to demand elasticity, causes consumers in those non-US countries to buy fewer of those products.
    Some impact may be badwill as well but quite a bit is first-order impact of second-order tariffs.
    mc32 · 1790644828 · focus · HN ↗
    That seems odd since the EU lowered tariffs on US ag products. They also took back some previous retaliatory tariffs that were in place.
    Borealid · 1790645180 · focus · HN ↗
    Question: what is the ratio of US wine imported into the EU vs US wine imported into Canada, by dollar value?
    Question: what is the percentage increase in tariff amounts on wine between the pre- and post-USMCA state of play between the US and Canada?
    Sometimes seeing why something has happened requires considering wider context, which is why it's usually good for a nation to ensure primary education includes solid economics, history, media literacy, etc curricula.
    hedora · 1790645255 · focus · HN ↗
    I’m in the US, and won’t buy booze from red states. I’m really getting to know our local (and also Scottish / Irish) distilleries.
    I don’t imagine I’d buy any American imports if I was overseas.
    ashdksnndck · 1790646335 · focus · HN ↗
    In 2024 (pre-trade-war), the US exported $168M of wine to the EU and $460M to Canada. Any recovery in wine exports to the EU won’t make up for Canadian boycotts.
    k12sosse · 1790652279 · focus · HN ↗
    Numbers for importing California wines went from $540 million, to $40 million in 3, 5 years. For one province alone. And this wasn't a federal decision, this was people telling their provincial government to do it. And they listened.
    intothemild · 1790679289 · focus · HN ↗
    I'll give my own personal reasons, our interest rates were going down.. Trump decides to start a trade war, then the central banks get a bit worried, then Trump decides to go to war with Iran.. now the central banks are increasing interest rates, as the future is uncertain.
    His whole rhetoric is America should make more stuff right... Well, we can certainly stop buying that stuff since the choices he's made have hurt us. I'd prefer to buy closer to home thanks.
    Not the only one I'm guessing.
    treis · 1790647269 · focus · HN ↗
    This is incorrect:
    <a href="https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports" rel="nofollow">https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/exports
    NewJazz · 1790655995 · focus · HN ↗
    [delayed]
    treis · 1790701475 · focus · HN ↗
    The trend is the same adjusting for inflation
    <a href="https://www.macrotrends.net/3510/us-exports" rel="nofollow">https://www.macrotrends.net/3510/us-exports
  3. alkonaut · 1790675107 · focus · HN ↗
    > - Tariffs so less international demand for US wine > - Canadian boycots of US products due to tariff wars
    The tariff wars and "boycott US wine" goes way beyond Canada. I (in Europe) completely stopped buying US wine during this admin. Polls support this.
  4. YcYc10 · 1790678441 · focus · HN ↗
    > Canadian boycots of US products due to tariff wars
    Not just Canada

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