Thread

EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

693 points · 905 comments · hackernj

noir_lord · 1789555669 · focus · HN ↗
Good, if the middle power democracies don't align/work together they are going to get torn apart in the struggle between the US and China.
1. wewewedxfgdf · 1789558357 · focus · HN ↗
  Errrrr...... this has nothing to do with the struggle between USA and China.
  It is 100% about Trump.
  1. noir_lord · 1789558937 · focus · HN ↗
    Trump is a symptom not the disease, when he's gone the people who supported him and voted for him still exist and another Trump-like figure is almost inevitable given they've basically ploughed and planted that field to grow the next one and who's to say NeoTrump isn't going to be smarter.
    The other democracies can no longer count on the US as a stable ally the way we have in the past (whether that trust was misplaced is a matter of perspective).
    Simply put, you did it twice, We can't rely on them not doing it again.
    LeBit · 1789561117 · focus · HN ↗
    That and nobody believes that if the Democrats get back in the driver’s seat that they will correct all the disgusting things Trump did.
    Americans voted for that clown regime twice.
    They cannot and should not be trusted anymore.
    mettamage · 1789561403 · focus · HN ↗
    IMO it’s the 2 party system in the US that make it more vulnerable for things like this to happen
    pvaldes · 1789578678 · focus · HN ↗
    US biggest existential crisis is the fact that the opposition is always a monopoly.
    So either you have a massive win, or a party will block the other forever out of spite, nothing can be accomplished and no mistake can be fixed. With more opposition groups the situation would change for good ("You don't want to make a deal with me, I will ask the third and fourth parties. The first team doing a reasonable move gets the prize").
    sethammons · 1789597892 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm in favor of Rank Choice Voting for this reason. Our system makes 3rd party votes hard or impossible, so instead of voting for who you like, you have to vote for who you dislike the least.
    Let people vote for who they like the most without fear of their vote bolstering a candidate they really don't like. We should start exposing kids to RCV in schools. Now. It needs to not be "weird" or "hard" or propagandized as "not fair." Not fair is not being able to vote for your favorite person.
    petilon · 1789562749 · focus · HN ↗
    When Hitler was removed did another Hitler variant take control of Germany? No, Germany recovered from that dark period. The same will happen in the US. We will recover from this dark period. The comparison to Hitler is not baseless, btw. His own vice president once called Trump America's Hitler.
    b112 · 1789563460 · focus · HN ↗
    If you mean after facing bitter defeat, being broken into two nations, being controlled directly by foreign powers for years (and on one side decades), paying reparations, its upper political class and collaborators seized, jailed, trialed, and the free side being afraid of annexation by Russia, having nazism and any artifacts outlawed, then yes.
    Yes, after all and more, no future Hitler has yet emerged.
    Unless you see these things happening soon, then not really a good comparison.
    pjc50 · 1789564984 · focus · HN ↗
    > The same will happen in the US
    I don't think even the most hardened bsky communist seriously expects the outgoing administration to be literally taken out and shot.
    enoint · 1789565980 · focus · HN ↗
    Canada was able to convict Peter Nygard, and Trump might not have completed the Epstein coverup yet.
    Toynbeeidea · 1789569096 · focus · HN ↗
    No, because he was removed at gunpoint (no, not the one he pointed at himself). Unless and until that happens to a US President, you can expect more of the same.
    calf · 1789579010 · focus · HN ↗
    Such a simplistic historical comparison tells on yourself, it is precisely this mentality that larger sociopolitical forces exploit and reproduce new fascisms and the like. In other words your very argument demonstrates the falsity of the claim.
    dfxm12 · 1789564153 · focus · HN ↗
    It doesn't need to be a trump like figure. I would temper expectations that anything for Europe or Canada goes back to some status quo. It's more likely for Canada, but the US has changes domestically and with regards to other foreign nations in ways that necessitate different foreign relations even with close allies.
    We can look at Biden. He's not a trump like figure by any stretch. He decided to continue some of Trump's foreign policy.
  2. ChrisRR · 1789559843 · focus · HN ↗
    Trump is absolutely a malicious imbecile, but the US is a country that willingly voted him in twice.
    Removing Trump doesn't remove fundamental issues with the US
  3. padjo · 1789561522 · focus · HN ↗
    This has been brewing since George W Bush. Obama made a valiant attempt at normalising relations with Europe but I don't think any future US president has any hope of reversing this now.
    mschuster91 · 1789562461 · focus · HN ↗
    Europe was skeptical ever since 'nam and at the latest Bush Sr's Iraq adventure.
    NeutralCrane · 1789564854 · focus · HN ↗
    Since the wars in Iraq, sure. Vietnam was the US inheriting Europe’s mess.
    braho · 1789622356 · focus · HN ↗
    US shifting accountability of their choices on account of some mess of others. ‘We had no other choice because you can’t take care of it yourself’
    Thats exactly the narrative the rest of the world doesnt take anymore.
    mschuster91 · 1789628022 · focus · HN ↗
    They do have a point though. Libya, Syria, Lebanon, that's our doorstep, not the US'. And we in fact did not do a good job keeping house there.
    NeutralCrane · 1790162730 · focus · HN ↗
    It’s not shifting accountability. After WWII, France demanded that its colonial holdings, including French Indochina, be returned to it as a requirement for it joining NATO. The Vietnamese were not interested in returning to French colonial rule. This kicked off a decade-long war between the two that the French lost. The US had advisors to the southern Vietnamese during that time, and rather than fully pulling out, increased their presence as they tried to manage the void left by the French. This spiraled into the Vietnam War.
    The US is on the hook for its decisions. But Europe doesn’t get off the hook for its own.
    padjo · 1789579975 · focus · HN ↗
    Nah, Europe was a happy participant in Iraq 1. The trend from that to Iraq 2 to whatever the hell they're doing in Iran now is really clear.
    RunSet · 1789563012 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qdvm6h8WKg" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qdvm6h8WKg
  4. Waterluvian · 1789563399 · focus · HN ↗
    We don’t do trade with Trump. We don’t get attacked by Trump.
  5. drawfloat · 1789565650 · focus · HN ↗
    It has very little to do with Trump. When he leaves, this shift isn't going away.

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