All the authors observations ring true, and they all stem from one simple fact: China was a very poor country just forty years ago, and even today is only a middle income country.
The uncomfortable truth is a lot of the things westerners take for granted are, in fact, luxuries. Arts and creativity is a luxury. Freedom to pursue passion is a luxury. Compassion is a luxury. Self-esteem is a luxury. If you barely have enough food to feed your family, as a significant number of Chinese people were in the 60s and 70s, you cannot afford any of these.
China has grown richer at a remarkable rate, but the mentality shift can take generations.
Say that all you want, make it a mantra if you like. But have you ever skipped a meal out of sheer poverty? Or might you be projecting ethics (ie aka Americanism)? Maybe we should actually cut them some slack.
I have. I know a lot of generous, compassionate poor people. I met loads of them in Honduras and Brazil and Belize. Compassion and generosity need not be a factor of economics.
Severely competitive and hopeless environments will do a hell of a job on human compassion.
Read about the dehumanizing effects of concentration camps on individuals hiding food from their family or praying their father dies so they can get his food
Its arguable that our ability to build luxurious enough societies has allowed out compassion to flourish far beyond what is witnessed elsewhere in the state of nature
Having less competitive/ruthless (sub) societies i.e. environments where one co-operates is what allowed us to get luxury not the other way around.
> Severely competitive and hopeless environments will do a hell of a job on human compassion.
True.
> Its arguable that our ability to build luxurious enough societies has allowed out compassion to flourish far beyond what is witnessed elsewhere in the state of nature.
Concentration camps and famines are not the 'state of nature'. A closer analogue would be tribal societies in the Amazon basin, Eastern Africa and the like. Constant hunger and scarcity are not the norm for well adapted human cultures, nor have the been for most of recorded history.
By state of nature I means the non human vilification life space.
Of course a concentration camp isn’t the state of nature
I’m saying human compassion far exceeds anything witnessed in the animal/plant kingdom. Some animals show affection for their offspring, but it usually doesn’t extend beyond that. There is no dog or lizard or tree version of mother Teressa
Concentration camps were created, engineered and run by rich people. Whatever lack of perfect compasion and fight for scraps you see inside, comparably rich people making conscious choice to create them, support them, work in them, profit from them have less of it.
I dont know what you mean there. It was just historical fact about who build them and run them.
They did not emerged as force of nature out of ground. They were intentionally and conciously build. And guards were well fed.
And in here, when you use inmates lack of compassion as example of powerty causimg lack of it, you absolutely should compare to compassion of builders and guards.
Which is why I think the whole premise of GP is kind of suspect. China has housed a highly-developed society - not just a civilization, but a contiguous, if evolving, social order - for longer than most of the rest of the world. Even what they consider backwoods and rural is basically urban by most historical standards.
These aren't the problems of a society rising out of a state of nature; as TFA states, "The narrative is that China experienced a “century of humiliation”". I think certain aspects of Chinese culture as we know it, writ-large, make more sense coming from people who weren't just recently struggling as a society, but who are well aware of how that condition compares to their historical one.
HeavenFox · · focus · HN ↗
All the authors observations ring true, and they all stem from one simple fact: China was a very poor country just forty years ago, and even today is only a middle income country.
The uncomfortable truth is a lot of the things westerners take for granted are, in fact, luxuries. Arts and creativity is a luxury. Freedom to pursue passion is a luxury. Compassion is a luxury. Self-esteem is a luxury. If you barely have enough food to feed your family, as a significant number of Chinese people were in the 60s and 70s, you cannot afford any of these.
China has grown richer at a remarkable rate, but the mentality shift can take generations.
lenerdenator · · focus · HN ↗
Societies thrive when humans cut each other a little slack. They die when people are constantly looking for ways to take advantage of others.
cpursley · · focus · HN ↗
christophilus · · focus · HN ↗
talon8635 · · focus · HN ↗
Read about the dehumanizing effects of concentration camps on individuals hiding food from their family or praying their father dies so they can get his food
Its arguable that our ability to build luxurious enough societies has allowed out compassion to flourish far beyond what is witnessed elsewhere in the state of nature
lenerdenator · · focus · HN ↗
Concentration camps are an example of humans taking advantage of one another. Arguably, it's the ultimate example.
talon8635 · · focus · HN ↗
boelboel · · focus · HN ↗
talon8635 · · focus · HN ↗
boelboel · · focus · HN ↗
dbspin · · focus · HN ↗
True.
> Its arguable that our ability to build luxurious enough societies has allowed out compassion to flourish far beyond what is witnessed elsewhere in the state of nature.
Concentration camps and famines are not the 'state of nature'. A closer analogue would be tribal societies in the Amazon basin, Eastern Africa and the like. Constant hunger and scarcity are not the norm for well adapted human cultures, nor have the been for most of recorded history.
talon8635 · · focus · HN ↗
Of course a concentration camp isn’t the state of nature
I’m saying human compassion far exceeds anything witnessed in the animal/plant kingdom. Some animals show affection for their offspring, but it usually doesn’t extend beyond that. There is no dog or lizard or tree version of mother Teressa
watwut · · focus · HN ↗
talon8635 · · focus · HN ↗
watwut · · focus · HN ↗
They did not emerged as force of nature out of ground. They were intentionally and conciously build. And guards were well fed.
And in here, when you use inmates lack of compassion as example of powerty causimg lack of it, you absolutely should compare to compassion of builders and guards.
fuzzythrowaway · · focus · HN ↗
These aren't the problems of a society rising out of a state of nature; as TFA states, "The narrative is that China experienced a “century of humiliation”". I think certain aspects of Chinese culture as we know it, writ-large, make more sense coming from people who weren't just recently struggling as a society, but who are well aware of how that condition compares to their historical one.