Thread

Automatic Transmission – a data-privacy study of connected vehicles

262 points · 235 comments · rafaelc

prasadvara · 1790886388 · focus · HN ↗
The ongoing theme of all these responses was shifting the blame to the consumer.
As expected. I think consumers also need to push back on these practices, but the problem is, majority of consumers are tech savy but not privacy savy.
1. slowin · 1790887238 · focus · HN ↗
  I'd love to push back, I'm not sure what that looks like though. I can't even get an open source/open hardware phone that's decent, let alone a car.
  1. ad_fontes · 1790888139 · focus · HN ↗
    You might want to check out Slate. It's about the closest thing to an open vehicle platform I can imagine.
    slowin · 1790888436 · focus · HN ↗
    Interesting and thank you! Just like I'd like a "dumb" tv that I could just plug a Linux machine running Kodi into, I'd like a car that was 100% free from smart features, yet gave me the hooks to power any of the systems with my own software/hardware.
    asdff · 1790891484 · focus · HN ↗
    The closest thing is just any old basic obdii and that's it ICE car, where you rip out the oem radio and now have your power taps to do all sorts of fun hacker projects within that new found standard sized void in the dash.
    wiml · 1790889192 · focus · HN ↗
    Does Slate actually make any statements about the level of telematics/surveillance in their vehicles?
    goda90 · 1790889479 · focus · HN ↗
    They say their vehicles have no modem by default, only leaving it as an option for fleet users. They also have no infotainment system to contain any sort of camera or microphone.
    CarVac · 1790889577 · focus · HN ↗
    They do have a backup camera.
    themaninthedark · 1790956315 · focus · HN ↗
    It's required by law...
    ad_fontes · 1790889570 · focus · HN ↗
    IIRC, they don't have a cellular radio in the vehicle (or even a FM radio). All the connectivity is done via Bluetooth with a mobile app.
    It's been a while since I read up on them and things might have changed, but I have a lot respect for what they're doing. Full embracing right to repair and customer privacy when the entire industry is moving at lightning speed in the opposite direction.
    goodmythical · 1790890121 · focus · HN ↗
    Aren't their companies that are doing their telemetry over bluetooth bridge to phone' internet? Not saying slate necessarily does, but it's certainly an available exfil surface, especially if there's a 'manage your slate vehicle' app.
    SoftTalker · 1790895661 · focus · HN ↗
    You can always just not connect the bluetooth.
    goodmythical · 1791078911 · focus · HN ↗
    Well, sure, but if memory serves, there are car platforms where you connect for say playing music and the cars app on your phone uses the bluetooth connection to exfil data to the car company via the phone's internet.
    I'm just saying that "disable car's telemetry" is not necessarily 100% for preventing exfil of car telemetry if you then connect your phone while having the car app running.
    Like, I'm not sure of the company, but I know there was some "I modded my car so it couldn't phone home but I'm still getting reports from the manufacturer about excessive acceleration" and it ended up being because the owner had disabled the car's telemetry but was using the app on the phone for remote start and music or whatever.
    [deleted] · 1790895981 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    holycrapwhodat · 1790893585 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes.
    If you buy a completely option-free $24,950 truck, there is no telematics/surveillance in their vehicle.
    Which also means there's no remote app features that people enjoy.
    The spirit of the vehicle is you can option out just about anything and DIY-it; very, very few "from the factory" options, but dozens upon dozens of DIY accessories from the factory.
    Including a $275 telematics module - <a href="https://www.slate.auto/en/store/ACCIT010" rel="nofollow">https://www.slate.auto/en/store/ACCIT010 - Which enables remote app features.
    The current description for the module on their website:
    > A plug-and-play solution that acts as a cellular bridge between your smartphone and your Slate vehicle, enabling features like remote access and battery pre-conditioning.
    It's not clear to anyone exactly what features the module has to enable the above, or if it does more than all that.
    Once the thing actually ships, there'll be manuals, and there'll be people hacking it to find out exactly what it both does and doesn't do.
    And since it's a DIY addition, if you later become uncomfortable with what you added to your vehicle, you can remove it!
    snypher · 1790895737 · focus · HN ↗
    >no remote app features that people enjoy.
    I do enjoy watching my friend remote start his Colorado through the app, it only takes 30 seconds for the app to load and sign in, and then he presses a button that used to be on the key itself.
    kotaKat · 1790937338 · focus · HN ↗
    Preorder customer and heavy info-digger here on Slate:
    There's no actual wireless on the vehicle out of the box. There's a "secure gateway" module that has a USB Ethernet adapter hanging off it, then that hangs off a USB-C port just inside the dash panels. Job listings basically detail that it's going to be DTLS over USB to the truck to do all the CANbus magic and stuff.
    The telematics module also just hooks to a second USB port on the secure gateway that also has access to that same DTLS link.
    So far in the truck's development they don't even really have an app yet before launch but the truck's driving along very happy without it.
    <a href="https://www.cybercogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/cybercogs_sgi_rev0d.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.cybercogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/cyberco...
    M95D · 1790930963 · focus · HN ↗
    No standard DIN slot to install my own radio/CD/mp3.
    emdash · 1790947651 · focus · HN ↗
    Now if only they'd actually deliver a vehicle
    iririririr · 1790953180 · focus · HN ↗
    isn't that owned/invested by bezos?
  2. 0c3ca83 · 1790888493 · focus · HN ↗
    It looks like lobbying for increased consumer protection laws. Either you put on a suit and talk to politicians, or you work with and donate to groups that do.
  3. AlexandrB · 1790888571 · focus · HN ↗
    DMCA needs to be repealed or at least radically changed. Currently it's used as a cudgel by manufacturers to prevent customers from modifying the software in the stuff they buy. Legislation that requires vendors to provide documentation and stuff like "right to repair" would also go a long way.
    yearolinuxdsktp · 1790904692 · focus · HN ↗
    Manufacturers laugh in the face of right to repair laws. They have no teeth.
    So you can buy repair manual access for 1-3 days or on a subscription. You don’t get car software updates. You don’t get the diagnostic interface documentation. It’s a joke.
  4. devin · 1790888881 · focus · HN ↗
    For my part, I will not be purchasing a new car until they bring back physical controls and dump the spyware.
    dublin · 1790896520 · focus · HN ↗
    Mee, too. And that's why I've made my peace with the idea of never again buying a new car. They're all garbage quality, outrageously expensive, and effectively unrepairable, anyway, so it's not a big loss. Probably most cars and trucks older than about 2018 are safe, I figure...
    verisimi · 1790917639 · focus · HN ↗
    In many places in Europe, older cars are not viable on account of emissions legislation. So, if you want to drive with an older car, you will have to pay a pretty large daily fee to do so. This is done in the name of pollution.
    I would expect this legislative approach will be rolled everywhere.
    I hate it, fwiw.
    bluGill · 1790940674 · focus · HN ↗
    Not to mention, in most worlds, an electric car is going to be much cheaper to drive in the long run.
    verisimi · 1790961692 · focus · HN ↗
    You just need to splash 20-whatever thousands to upgrade first. Its only money!
    devin · 1790953927 · focus · HN ↗
    I will pay the fee instead of purchase a new car.
    verisimi · 1790961647 · focus · HN ↗
    Its about 16.54 dollars every day you use your car in London.
    <a href="https://government.london/services/ulez/" rel="nofollow">https://government.london/services/ulez/
    > Drive a non-compliant vehicle anywhere in London and you pay £12.50 for the day. Check your vehicle first — most newer cars pay nothing — then pay for the day or set up Auto Pay with TfL.
    devin · 1790962979 · focus · HN ↗
    Sometimes it costs money to stick to your principles.
    verisimi · 1790983456 · focus · HN ↗
    I get it - I'm just telling you what the cost in London is. Most people can't stick paying that amount just to drive their old car. Most people upgrade.
    For me, this is another example of how corporations + governments work together to artificially create new markets with the consumer picking up the tab. In this case, car maker sales are boosted by legislation that punishes ownership of perfectly viable cars.
  5. gib444 · 1790888888 · focus · HN ↗
    > I'm not sure what that looks like though
    Two wheels and some impressive leg muscles !
    fragmede · 1790894388 · focus · HN ↗
    You say that in jest, but ebikes are really changing the world.
    gib444 · 1790952027 · focus · HN ↗
    I got one 8 years ago and I don't own a car (too poor right now). My biggest problem is there is nowhere secure enough to leave it in my nearby towns and some cities. But the villages are safe enough. And luckily our trains permit ebikes
  6. asdff · 1790891282 · focus · HN ↗
    Look at the options on the table for you: Either do nothing and buy new cars, or buy an older car and maintain it for the rest of your life. There is no option C, as you note.
2. olyjohn · 1790890684 · focus · HN ↗
  Using a smart phone doesn't make someone tech savvy.
3. ASalazarMX · 1790898659 · focus · HN ↗
  In this case, vote with your wallet = buy an old car, or none at all.
  The market is kind of free, but some parts have more freedom than others.
4. jojobas · 1790901012 · focus · HN ↗
  The consumer and the voter are the same guy. Yes it's definitely that guy's fault.
5. Terr_ · 1790913220 · focus · HN ↗
  Not only is it an initial-expectations issue, but if they spy on you anyway there's no real punishment, so they are incentivize to cut corners—or simply cheat.
6. izacus · 1790933626 · focus · HN ↗
  Even the HackerNewsers are quite happy to blame the consumer ("just don't buy it!", "just don't use useful features!", "just drive an old car!") instead of pushing back.
  The victim blaming when it comes to enshittification is now so deeply ingrained into culture of Americans that it's pretty much impossible to expect any kind of coordinated pushback for more consumer rights.
7. TheSkyHasEyes · 1790969427 · focus · HN ↗
  > majority of consumers are tech savy
  No, not at all. Most consumers wouldn't know or care if it's present let alone how it all works...or why they should be aware of it. Not a slight to the non-IT literate either.
8. mahboi · 1790974214 · focus · HN ↗
  They could also be privacy savvy but not care

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