It's actually just the elite class of mafioso that have weasled their way into power. Israel is convenient for them to support, as amongst other things they can test weapons on the population there. But "Israel secretly controlling everything" is a cute narrative for profoundly naive people of limited intelligence (on the right and left). Get rid of Israel and kill all the Jews - you'll still have the same class of people controlling everything, but with less leverage in the middle east (if Israel goes to the Muslims and not the Christian evangelicals or some secular corporate group, in which case business as usual). Having a scapegoat makes the world a nice easy place to understand, and more importantly makes people easy to control.
Please, we've have two parties directing the public's attention to every controversy except Israel for the past few decades. And none of the elites criticize Israel even when they go against US imperialist interests. Only reason this is even talked about now is because of younger people and because both Netanyahu and Trump made things too blatant lately.
Why on earth would any elites criticise Israel? As a state, it serves the purposes of the military industrial complex very well - it's useful to keep around. As a public opinion topic, politicians in the west will use Israel (pro or against) to get votes or public support. Like I said, "getting rid of Israel and the Jews" (which is what many people on the left and right, explicitly or implicitly want - not to mention this is the goal of Shia Islam nationalism) - won't actually change much other than decrease the ability of Western elites to project power into the region. I don't support this goal, as most extremists do, because although I'm anti-Israel, I'm not a psychopath. Cute you think a second-rate, self-serving, opportunist like Netanyahu is secretly pulling the strings though. Watch Israel die - and then I suppose you'll be scratching your little head wondering why the technocrats still run your world.
I never said that Israel, or especially Netanyahu, runs the world. Israeli-American lobby groups and individuals have some share of power. There are also just a lot of politicians who are Jewish themselves or have ties, like Biden's and Trump's children. They don't have to control a whole lot to ensure US support for Israel, only be coordinated enough on their particular interests so nobody considers it worthwhile to challenge them, also be discreet. This has been studied for decades. Now that strategy has been broken, and we're seeing more politicians start to turn against Israel.
So back to what I said and not words put in my mouth, we started a war on Iraq for Israel, now same thing with Iran.
> I suppose you'll be scratching your little head
You said nothing incorrect in that particular comment and I agree. Sorry I implied your head was little, clearly I was wildly wrong. But stating that there are pro-israel individuals (Jewish and otherwise) lobby groups (which is true, and has been public information for a long time), as well as cultural-historical-political motivations for supporting Israel, it does not follow that the US technocratic elite and the military industrial complex are "in the pocket" of Israel, which is what the loudest reactionaries are implying or outright stating. The truth is in fact, quite a lot more disheartening.
Why do you need "leverage" in the Middle East? Haven't they suffered enough since ~WWI colonization (including Africa and India and the surrounding regions)?
I haven't seen any serious circles and discussions that use israel as a scapegoat for every issue that arises, but it is also naive to deny what we see in front of our eyes and hear with our ears first hand from their own ministers; it's more clear now than ever.
Frankly I don't care about whether or not they're colonized. Ottomans colonized the entire Mid East before, and Persia had its empire mostly in the same borders as today; that's just how the region works. I care that the US is doing things against its own interest.
I meant it's against US interests to support Israel. We're spending insane amounts of money and diplomatic capital for very little in return. It doesn't help against any of our serious enemies like Russia. It's not even a colony because it's not under US control like Venezuela is.
Oh please, you can't honestly believe that the "The West" (primarily the US elites - and European- that essentially own democracy at this point) care about suffering? It's about winning and control of resources. Israel is committing war crimes - but that's business as usual. There are absolutely people that think Israel is essentially secretly controlling the world - and yes, they are stupid, and yes their stupidity is either encouraged or a "happy accident". Although, Israel has it's own agenda (removal of all power of the Palestinian Muslim population) and survival as a state, it serves it's purpose as a tool for the above mentioned elite and the states they use (the US primarily) to further their agenda (which is basically to stay in power indefinitely and continue to do whatever they want to do without any reprucussions).
Most of the stuff in there was true, but the thing is, it was their problem and not ours. And when ISIS became our problem, Israel said it's not their problem.
No, but the Levantine coast is strategic wrt ME oil reserves and also close to the Suez canal which oil can be shipped through (up to Suezmax), and part of the idea was to have a dependent proxy in the region to protect British interests.
The Balfour declaration article is a reference to how the occupation of Palestine came about; yes, there were specifically Jewish interests (only some Jews, by no means all), but there were also strong imperialist interests.
Britain was already occupying Palestine before the Balfour Declaration, and it was easier that way because they hadn't kicked out 3/4 of the population and pissed off all neighboring countries.
I had to look this up, and it turns out the British invasion of Palestine started in early 1917, coming from the Sinaï, they lost two battles of Gaza in March and April, and won the third on November 2, 1917, which is the exact date on the letter of the Balfour declaration, published a week later.
The British took Jerusalem in December, but it does not seem at all that they were occupying Palestine before in the sense that there was no more Ottoman resistance. Rather, large parts continued to be held by the Ottomans, who only surrendered in October 1918.
As for the population being kicked out, that was not in 1917/18 and not the feat of the British, but of the Jews (aided and abetted by the UN: expropriation plan), and in 1948. The British had, however, helped prepare the ethnic cleansing.
Anyway, what I meant by occupation in my previous comment was the current day occupation of Palestine by Jews mostly from Eastern Europe (Ashkenazi), who then “encouraged” Jews from other ME countries to resettle to Palestine, where they were creating a Jewish state.
throwaw12 · · focus · HN ↗
I am curious what did the world gain from this?
exe34 · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
liorsbg · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
gregoryyy · · focus · HN ↗
za3faran · · focus · HN ↗
gregoryyy · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
> Get rid of Israel and kill all the Jews
Your words, not mine
gregoryyy · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
So back to what I said and not words put in my mouth, we started a war on Iraq for Israel, now same thing with Iran.
> I suppose you'll be scratching your little head
Ok, bye
gregoryyy · · focus · HN ↗
za3faran · · focus · HN ↗
The fact that there are jews in Iran shows that they don't have the narrative of "getting rid of the jews".
za3faran · · focus · HN ↗
I haven't seen any serious circles and discussions that use israel as a scapegoat for every issue that arises, but it is also naive to deny what we see in front of our eyes and hear with our ears first hand from their own ministers; it's more clear now than ever.
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
za3faran · · focus · HN ↗
Is it against the interest of the US to cease supporting foreign entities and commit war crimes in the region?
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
za3faran · · focus · HN ↗
One can argue it's having negative return. Hopefully more Americans wake up and vote to stop burning their taxes.
gregoryyy · · focus · HN ↗
za3faran · · focus · HN ↗
Yep, that's my point. Many of us knew it from before, but the events of the past few years have really made the masks fall for all to see.
Hikikomori · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
Sabinus · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
Lumich · · focus · HN ↗
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
Sabinus · · focus · HN ↗
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
Lumich · · focus · HN ↗
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suez_Crisis
The Balfour declaration article is a reference to how the occupation of Palestine came about; yes, there were specifically Jewish interests (only some Jews, by no means all), but there were also strong imperialist interests.
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗
Lumich · · focus · HN ↗
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Gaza" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Battle_of_Gaza
The British took Jerusalem in December, but it does not seem at all that they were occupying Palestine before in the sense that there was no more Ottoman resistance. Rather, large parts continued to be held by the Ottomans, who only surrendered in October 1918.
As for the population being kicked out, that was not in 1917/18 and not the feat of the British, but of the Jews (aided and abetted by the UN: expropriation plan), and in 1948. The British had, however, helped prepare the ethnic cleansing.
Anyway, what I meant by occupation in my previous comment was the current day occupation of Palestine by Jews mostly from Eastern Europe (Ashkenazi), who then “encouraged” Jews from other ME countries to resettle to Palestine, where they were creating a Jewish state.
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirteenth_Tribe
mahboi · · focus · HN ↗