Thread

1. prodigycorp · 1790004466 · focus · HN ↗

   Man, I'm already burnt out on all this jev talk.

   The one thing jev has going for it is a dedicated company focused entirely on making the product good and keeping it maintained. I haven't been willing to jump on board with all these jev-shaped projects because their releases feel driven mostly by opportunism. I'm fine waiting a bit for the opportunists to shake out so we can see who is genuinely committed to bringing something valuable to the open-weight community.

   Jev is much better than the traditional ML crowd gives it credit for, but my enthusiasm hits a wall when it comes to their data policy. It is completely draconian. Whatever you feed into the system, they retain.

   The jev team needs to release a ZDR product, or their platform is dead on arrival. An open, jev-shaped model will win out solely on that basis.

   1. kerwioru9238492 · 1790004930 · focus · HN ↗

      <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;typesafe.ai&#x2F;legal&#x2F;privacy-policy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;typesafe.ai&#x2F;legal&#x2F;privacy-policy

      In their privacy policy they say

      We (1) will not train or fine tune any artificial intelligence or machine learning models on Input, and (2) will not disclose any Input to a third party other than our service providers.

      1. prodigycorp · 1790005168 · focus · HN ↗

         Yeah but they reserve the right to retain the data virtually indefinitely.

         These aren’t acceptable terms on a personal or corporate level. I’ve seen some fools brag about proxying their life through jev. Messages, emails, LLM calls, files.

         1. zambal · 1790008865 · focus · HN ↗

            According to <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.typesafe.ai&#x2F;legal" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.typesafe.ai&#x2F;legal they do offer ZDR for enterprise customers.

            1. prodigycorp · 1790009863 · focus · HN ↗

               I missed that. Typesafe, why is this hidden in your docs?!
      2. preuceian · 1790007782 · focus · HN ↗

         What about throughput (reasoning) and output? Or can we reasonably assume those are downstream of input and therefore covered by this policy as well?
      3. cle · 1790008573 · focus · HN ↗

         Will they train or fine tune on derivatives of input?

         I&#x27;d prefer if these companies would just enumerate what they will do with my data rather than these vague over-specific claims about what they will not do, which leave me with more questions than answers.

         1. aand16 · 1790027573 · focus · HN ↗

            They leave the door open for future, maybe novel, uses of your data... horrors beyond their (current) comprehension, I always assume.
   2. doublerabbit · 1790005635 · focus · HN ↗

      It&#x27;s Openclaw all over again.

      1. prodigycorp · 1790006070 · focus · HN ↗

         I was enthusiastic about the release of jev much more than I was openclaw because new generative primitive are fun to play around with. But this may be the fastest I’ve ever gotten to being sick and tired of the discussion cycle around it.
   3. magimas · 1790008156 · focus · HN ↗

      &gt; I&#x27;m fine waiting a bit for the opportunists to shake out so we can see who is genuinely committed to bringing something valuable to the open-weight community.

      that is generally a very healthy attitude in the AI space anyway in my opinion.

      Some of our R&amp;D departments haven&#x27;t actually finished an interesting project in years because they keep jumping from trend to trend wanting to try out all the latest shit all the time.

      1. jldugger · 1790008347 · focus · HN ↗

         Agentic has now replaced javascript for the &quot;It has been 0 weeks since the last Y framework&quot; meme.
   4. max-privatevoid · 1790009476 · focus · HN ↗

      &gt; ZDR

      Does anyone actually believe this?

      1. ahmadyan · 1790033544 · focus · HN ↗

         for other providers, e.g. openai and anthropic, zdr is offered by 3p hyperscaler like aws&#x2F;azure&#x2F;gcp, right? they have no reasons to risk their business and piss off their customers.
   5. hhh · 1790014185 · focus · HN ↗

      They offer ZDR. It was effortless to get.
   6. andriy_koval · 1790029668 · focus · HN ↗

      &gt; The one thing jev has going for it is a dedicated company focused entirely on making the product good and keeping it maintained.

      by not allowing to benchmark it, they make it user-hostile, you don&#x27;t know for what kind of quality you pay

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