‹ BackHN Continuity

Thread

English: A vs. An

365 points · 529 comments · azhenley

  1. throwawayk7h · · focus · HN ↗
    I'm always curious why sometimes I pronounce the as /ðə/ ("thuh") and sometimes as /ði/ ("thee"). I don't really know what governs this but I expect it's the presence of a vowel at the start of the following word. However, only some vowels. Does anyone have an answer?
    1. devindotcom · · focus · HN ↗
      I do this too - "thee actual" vs "thuh real" and such. I do expect it's to do with having a vowel sound of a certain kind at the beginning of the next work making you move your tongue in a certain way.
      1. rizonio · · focus · HN ↗
        with "the actual" I imagine you're also putting in a kind of intrusive "y" sound so it flows better into the vowel
        1. devindotcom · · focus · HN ↗
          yep although I don't think it sounds too intrusive. it comes out as theeyactual while the alternative would the thuh.Actual with a sort of micro-accent on the A. I'm sure linguists have names for all these things, like when the movements of the tongue and mouth incidentally form phonemes!
      2. __david__ · · focus · HN ↗
        I do too, but with an exception—if I’m going to emphasize the word “actual” I’ll say “thuh ACTual” but with a full stop after the “the” so that I can really chew on that first syllable for the emphasis.
    2. CoastalCoder · · focus · HN ↗
      I grew up in New England.

      My experience is that "thuh" is basically a lazy / informal pronunciation of that word.

      But it's also by far the most common pronunciation. "Thee" would sound strangely hyper-formal, at least in my circles.

      Edit: the sibling comment (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=49770609">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=49770609) also rings true to me.

    3. stackghost · · focus · HN ↗
      &gt; However, only some vowels

      Pretty sure it’s all vowels isn’t it?

      “Thee”: apple, evening, island, offer, underpass

      “Thus”: any other words where you don’t need to avoid a glottal stop to differentiate the word.

      1. stvltvs · · focus · HN ↗

        [dead]

      2. stackghost · · focus · HN ↗
        I realized long after the edit window expired that autocorrect changed it to “thus”.
      3. throwawayk7h · · focus · HN ↗
        Hmm... I think an &#x2F;u&#x2F; (&quot;oo&quot;) triggers &quot;thuh&quot; for me, as in &quot;the ubermensch.&quot; But that might just be my idiolect.
    4. drnick1 · · focus · HN ↗
      This is governed by the following word. &quot;Thee&quot; can also be used for emphasis anywhere.
    5. Laurel1234 · · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

    6. weinzierl · · focus · HN ↗
      The official rule I learnt in my English (as foreign language) classes is vowel = thee and consonant = thuh. That&#x27;s it.

      But I noticed that native speakers deviate from this at least in two cases:

      1. Use thee to emphasize the following noun

      2. When searching for the noun to say, they often get it wrong because they say something like &quot;uh, thee, thee, thee, uh, book&quot; and never sweat it.

      Source: I watched a lot of Monty Python as a kid and John Cleese does this all the time.

    7. tempaccountabcd · · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

    8. jwrallie · · focus · HN ↗
      People taught me the a&#x2F;an rule based on the vowel, but never taught me about this, probably because at school, the emphasis is on grading on the written language.

      I just noticed that I do this change in pronunciation without even (and ever) noticing it, which is how I like to approach learning these rules, by pure exposure.

    9. subarctic · · focus · HN ↗
      It&#x27;s similar to a&#x2F;an, thuh is before a consonant and thee is before a vowel. And thee is also used for emphasis. But some people use a &#x2F; thuh before a vowel. Do you have an example?
      1. throwawayk7h · · focus · HN ↗
        Hmm... I think it might be speed. I&#x27;ll say &quot;thuh apple&quot; if I&#x27;m speaking slowly, and &quot;thee apple&quot; if I&#x27;m speaking quickly. Which is strange, because &quot;thee apple&quot; sounds more formal to me, yet it&#x27;s what I default to only when speaking quickly.
        1. olsondv · · focus · HN ↗
          Speed changes it for me too. However, emphasis can also mean using thee. An obnoxious US example is people saying “THEE Ohio State University”, often with a pause after thee as well. It’s not “thee Ohio River”. You would use “thuh”.
    10. namenotrequired · · focus · HN ↗
      I learned English as a second language and was taught it was thee before vowel sounds and thuh before consonants. Is it wrong?
Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.