Thread

1. thelastgallon · 1790707464 · focus · HN ↗

   Or they could use EVs. Require cars to have V2X (Vehicle to Grid, Vehicle to Load) feature. EV batteries are humongous.

   1. jethronethro · 1790710474 · focus · HN ↗

      Do any of the EVs sold in the US support Vehicle to Grid?

      1. WarmWash · 1790725418 · focus · HN ↗

         Lightnings do (well before they were discontinued)

         But given they are NMC chemistry, you probably wouldn't want to cycle them a lot for the grid (or just your home).

         1. everybodyknows · 1790729448 · focus · HN ↗

            You wouldn't have to, to nevertheless provide great benefit to the grid. Look up "TOU billing".
      2. happyopossum · 1790726820 · focus · HN ↗

         Many do - teslas, ford lightnings, Kia ev9, all the GM Ultium stuff (Silverado etc, hummer ev, Cadillacs), and a bunch of others.

         1. tzs · 1790730407 · focus · HN ↗

            Isn’t Tesla V2G just for Cybertruck?
      3. oori · 1790727994 · focus · HN ↗

         Many do (assuming bidirectional charger), but it’s only 3.6kW max, in most cases
      4. danans · 1790729718 · focus · HN ↗

         Yes, but last I checked the bidi chargers were proprietary - tied to vehicle manufacturer - which is a huge disincentive. I don't want my home's battery connector locked into a vehicle brand/manufacturer.
   2. 0cf8612b2e1e · 1790715479 · focus · HN ↗

      As a consumer, would you want the extra usage on your battery? Those extra cycles have to cause some additional degradation to the system, but I do not know how much.

      1. _aavaa_ · 1790717378 · focus · HN ↗

         How much would I get paid?

         1. 0cf8612b2e1e · 1790721689 · focus · HN ↗

            Net metering rates are pretty poor, so I would guess not much outside of extreme grid instability. Although, you then might want to selfishly hoard the juice for yourself.

            1. eunoia · 1790723318 · focus · HN ↗

               It would not be selfish to run your home off the car battery during peak rates and therefore cutting peak demand on the grid. Everyone wins.

               1. 0cf8612b2e1e · 1790784420 · focus · HN ↗

                  Depends on the nature of the agreement and the need for energy. In a load shedding event, the power company may want to cut useless residential consumers so as to prioritize hospitals. From a maximal good perspective, it is better that the hospital is running than I get to run my AC when the grid is straining.
         2. thelastgallon · 1790739810 · focus · HN ↗

            Tesla Electric customers report making as much as $150 a day: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;electrek.co&#x2F;2023&#x2F;07&#x2F;05&#x2F;tesla-electric-customers-report-making-150-day&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;electrek.co&#x2F;2023&#x2F;07&#x2F;05&#x2F;tesla-electric-customers-repo...

            Car batteries are significantly larger than powerwall.

      2. nicoburns · 1790726444 · focus · HN ↗

         &gt; As a consumer, would you want the extra usage on your battery?

         I feel like this is likely going to be a non-issue in practice. Because these batteries are rated to last at least 10 years either way. And by that time, the cost of replacement will be dramatically cheaper.

         1. bluefirebrand · 1790733556 · focus · HN ↗

            &gt; Because these batteries are rated to last at least 10 years either way

            They are rated to last at least 10 years (under X usage conditions)

            They won&#x27;t last nearly that long under Y usage conditions if Y is substantially larger than X

            1. nicoburns · 1790775108 · focus · HN ↗

               They&#x27;re rated to last that long under a full charge-discharge cycle per day. You won&#x27;t be using them more than that unless you&#x27;re doing something really crazy.
   3. bethekidyouwant · 1790726211 · focus · HN ↗

      The down votes are because you use the word require. They’re never going to require it it would be opt in.

      1. medler · 1790729497 · focus · HN ↗

         I think they mean to use EV batteries would require the EV to be designed for V2G capability, which is currently rare

         1. thelastgallon · 1790748819 · focus · HN ↗

            Yes, thanks for the clarification. It goes without saying nobody can take energy from anyone without their permission. The manufacturers should build all cars with V2G feature, then people have the choice to participate in the energy ecosystem.
   4. _carbyau_ · 1790733715 · focus · HN ↗

      Nah, people want to wake up in the morning and know they can drive somewhere.

      Requiring it is crazy.

      1. thelastgallon · 1790737865 · focus · HN ↗

         28% of trips are under a mile, 52% under three, 64% under five, 79% under ten, 93% under twenty-five, and 98% under 50 miles.

         Only 0.8% of the trips are over 100 miles!

         1. _carbyau_ · 1790819386 · focus · HN ↗

            That&#x27;s cool. But how does the system match the draw down with your needs the next day? How can it possibly know?

            Unless you make it voluntary, because you yourself know.

            1. thelastgallon · 1790825893 · focus · HN ↗

               You can decide what level of charge to keep. Its is simple thing on the app. Or decide not to participate that day, again, a toggle on the app. Surely you&#x27;d know where you are going tomorrow?
      2. kalleboo · 1790738287 · focus · HN ↗

         In a hypothetical future where every single car participated, you probably wouldn&#x27;t need to dedicate more than a few % capacity to still make an absolutely massive VPP

         1. _carbyau_ · 1790819692 · focus · HN ↗

            True. But a household battery can do that, using heavier+cheaper chemistry.

            Leaving the car to do what a car does. Travelling by car takes a lot of energy.

            To keep current lifestyle across the population I figure we&#x27;ll need both.

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