Thread

Updated Google Maps shows destruction of the city of Rafah

943 points · 947 comments · slowin

bognition · 1790616426 · focus · HN ↗
Its really telling to see the destruction limited to where the structures used to be rather than to all of the surrounding green spaces. If the destruction of civilian dwellings was purely an accident you'd expect to see the destruction spread evenly over the area. Instead it looks much more like a prolonged set of surgical strikes to destroy the buildings while preserving as much of the surrounding areas as possible.
For a great example of this, look at this pin <a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZcMbdFcx87PrqoYNA" rel="nofollow">https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZcMbdFcx87PrqoYNA
And here's a pin of where the farms were spared <a href="https://maps.app.goo.gl/iZbbTH4iH27FCz4s9" rel="nofollow">https://maps.app.goo.gl/iZbbTH4iH27FCz4s9
1. biimugan · 1790619643 · focus · HN ↗
  I don't quite understand your argument here. In your first pin I'm struggling to find a single building that isn't leveled, or at least severely damaged. Even buildings far away from the city center in the boonies are leveled.
  1. cogman10 · 1790637175 · focus · HN ↗
    They are saying that this is genocidal destruction. In a war sometimes civilian infrastructure is hit as collateral. But here, all infrastructure is destroyed and it's clear this wasn't done by 1 or 2 errant bombs but rather because of direct targeting. It can't be argued to be an accident because in farmland you see no bombs which hit the farmland by mistake. In other-words, this is entirely purposeful.
    tgsovlerkhgsel · 1790657626 · focus · HN ↗
    Looks the same in Ukraine, and at least there it's most likely not primarily because Russians wanted flatten the city (I'm sure they'd have preferred taking it in one piece) but rather because fighting happens from buildings resulting in the buildings getting targeted.
    Doesn't mean that here the targeting couldn't have been done with the primary goal of displacing the population, but the buildings being destroyed doesn't prove the motive.
    newspaper1 · 1790657998 · focus · HN ↗
    Does it look the same in the Ukraine? I haven’t seen any footage of entire cities leveled like this.
    virgilp · 1790667257 · focus · HN ↗
    Seriouslly?
    You can find lots of videos of Russia firing thermobaric weapons into populated areas - you will find none fired by Israel into Gaza. And I don't think that's because IL doesn't have them.
    virgilp · 1790675182 · focus · HN ↗
    (i can't edit apparently): why the downvotes? Serious question I don't understand, is there anything I said above false? The parent comment is questioning whether RU cruelty in Ukraine is anything close to what IL did - and the answer is yes, it's actually much worse, especially when you factor in that it's completely unprovoked.
    brabel · 1790680044 · focus · HN ↗
    There is no way it’s worse. To be comparable the Russians would have to have flattened Kyiv and most other cities which is extremely far from reality. The cities being flattened are all in the frontline as there is no way to take a city by force without basically destroying every building.
    virgilp · 1790682294 · focus · HN ↗
    > The cities being flattened are all in the frontline as there is no way to take a city by force without basically destroying every building.
    It's exactly the same in Gaza! You basically justified Israel's actions here... Check the distance between Gaza City & Israel border, vs distance beetween Bakhmut & Russia's border. Tell me which one is farther away - I'll wait
    someonebaggy · 1790716350 · focus · HN ↗
    I wonder why Israel put the border there.
    close04 · 1790681287 · focus · HN ↗
    The destruction in Ukraine is mostly focused on the front line. Gaza was treated as a front line almost in its entirety, with almost no place to hide.
    virgilp · 1790682997 · focus · HN ↗
    Entire Gaza is frontline. It's 365 square kilometers - a lot smaller that UKR frontline. It's barely the size of Mariupol (which according to UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights report [1] had 90% of high-rise buildings destroyed or heavily damaged; and 60% of private houses. But if you know anything about former communist countries - in cities like Mariupol, most people lived in high-rise buildings). Now, bear in mind that according to the discussion we have here, a lot of people seem to believe that Mariupol got off easily and the destruction it suffered doesn't even compare to destruction in Bakhmut, Avdiivka, Vuhledar etc
    [1]<a href="https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countries/ua/2022-06-29/2022-06-UkraineArmedAttack-EN.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/countrie...
    close04 · 1790694592 · focus · HN ↗
    That's exactly why Gaza took it far worse than anything Russia can do in Ukraine. Gaza is shooting fish in a barrel and Israel fishes with dynamite and white phosphorus in that barrel. The Gaza war is about sterilizing that land of all its people, who I'm told aren't even considered people. Even Russia didn't go that far.
    virgilp · 1790700566 · focus · HN ↗
    > who I'm told aren't even considered people
    EXACTLY. You are told.
    If that was really the goal, I go back to my previous point - wouldn't thermobaric bombs be faster, more economic & more convenient? It just makes no logical sense. If you already declared them to be monsters, what exactly is holding them back?
    close04 · 1790751045 · focus · HN ↗
    It was a figure of speech. I'm told with evidence.
    virgilp · 1790864629 · focus · HN ↗
    Care to share the evidence?
    close04 · 1790949696 · focus · HN ↗
    You know how you don't convince a flat earther with evidence? You're not looking to be convinced, you just want to prove you're smarter than everyone else. You'll always have some silly vague argument that you can hang on to for dear life and pretend that invalidates the other person's case. I don't have time for pointless exercises you need as validation. :)
    virgilp · 1791112756 · focus · HN ↗
    All I see is that you're likely just ashamed to show out how weak your so-called "evidence" is, and instead chose to go on "you wouldn't believe it anyway" route. Yeah, if I won't believe it then it's probably due to the fact you yourself already know it's flimsy.

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.