Thread

Israel Keeps Expanding into Gaza Despite Cease-Fire, Satellite Images Show

128 points · 41 comments · ceejayoz

Loading the complete thread in the background. This saved snapshot is available now. Refresh

jnmandal · 1790606698 · focus · HN ↗
Pretty wild that the international community tolerates this. Realistically this should catalyze a UN intervention.
1. tonyhart7 · 1790606786 · focus · HN ↗
  US Gov would veto that shit
2. PorciiVorbesc · 1790606955 · focus · HN ↗
  UN is just a voluntary group activity discussion form, that's all, not some objective stand-up world police.
  Any UN-wide military intervention would require some consensus from at least some of the major powers on the security council, but Israel is being shielded by powers such as US and Germany so nothing will happen at UN level, especially when those two countries are known for applying sanctions on people and countries who are boycotting Israel and aiding Palestine.
  There are a few countries very vocal against what Israel is doing, but obviously none of them will go as far to send troops to that region by themselves, which is understandable for multiple reasons, especially given the already elevated economic and geopolitical challenges around the world right now.
3. 1over137 · 1790607244 · focus · HN ↗
  The “international community” also tolerates the USA invading Iraq, Iran, Venezuela, and all their other adventures. And tolerates Russia invading Ukraine. etc etc etc with many other countries’ adventures. Why expect different here?
4. spwa4 · 1790622976 · focus · HN ↗
  The UN has demonstrated they "tolerate" Russia's actions in Bucha, South Sudan and UAE's actions in Darfur, Iran's actions in Iran, Syria and Lebanon, China's actions in Xinjang, Myanmar ... They will not do anything in response, and have in fact attacked US, Israel, Ukraine, Poland, France and others for attempting to intervene in some cases.
  According to a speech at the UN human rights commission, Iran was not killing 50.000 young people, it was "defending against US and Israeli agression" (this was long before the attack btw), of course all in contradiction to the UN's own findings. For example they found Iran literally designed weapons to fire into crowds for maximum damage, among other things a kind of frag-grenade-shotgun. They fired it at hundreds of Iranian children, and in at least 2 instances at a mother-with-baby.
  UN has declared time and time again the the humiliation a lot of countries will face when even bringing these things to light is far worse, a totally intolerable example of "bringing out internal Affairs" (I believe that remark was China), than killing a few 100.000 people.
  So what do you expect? The UN has declared in the very clearest of terms that they will not act in the face of extreme human rights violations, even with death tolls exceeding the aerage war, or far more extreme and cruel than even Hamas claims was Israel's worst. They will not act, and will in fact protect the guilty parties.
  1. newspaper1 · 1790632993 · focus · HN ↗
    > According to a speech at the UN human rights commission, Iran was not killing 50.000 young people, it was "defending against US and Israeli agression", of course all in contradiction to the UN's own findings. For example they found Iran literally designed weapons to fire into crowds for maximum damage, among other things a kind of frag-grenade-shotgun shell to do maximum damage to people. They fired it at hundreds of Iranian children, and in at least 2 instances at a mother-with-baby.
    None of this happened, please stop spreading misinformation.
5. pseudohadamard · 1790690677 · focus · HN ↗
  Israel has a universal get-out-of-jail-free card for everything called "shout 'antisemitism'". Say anything even mildly critical of anything the Israeli government does and you get 'antisemitism' shouted at you. There are even antisemitic Israelis, meaning ones who have dared to criticize what their government is doing.
  1. the_origami_fox · 1790912534 · focus · HN ↗
    This is antizionist hate speech.
PorciiVorbesc · 1790606718 · focus · HN ↗
<a href="https://archive.is/rPB06" rel="nofollow">https://archive.is/rPB06
1. tyingq · 1790609215 · focus · HN ↗
  NYT seems to have found a way to keep the actual article content away from archive.is
hn3ufz62f7 · 1790606746 · focus · HN ↗
Having done imagery analysis, the tell is usually fresh earthworks and track patterns, they show up long before anyone admits a line moved.
Ylpertnodi · 1790606955 · focus · HN ↗
Well played, Mr trump, well played.
1. newspaper1 · 1790613037 · focus · HN ↗
  This problem goes well beyond Trump or Netanyahu. What we're seeing is inevitable continuation of the ethnic cleansing of Palestine that started with Nakba. Thankfully the tide is turning and the younger generations will not allow this to continue. Israel is on borrowed time and will be in direct conflict with the US once the younger generations take over.
pessimizer · 1790607214 · focus · HN ↗
The "cease-fire."
Israel has made clear that its goal is complete ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people, and maybe even larger parts of the Middle East, because it was promised to them by God. If you're a person who can listen to Israeli officials' public statements about what they wish to do and deny this, the fact that they're continuing to move in Gaza is not going to convince you.
The West Bank wasn't even involved, and it's currently being invaded - and monitored desperately by propagandists for an excuse to start the eradication there, too.
We're not only not going to stop it, we're not going to stop paying for it. We're the jihadis.
1. 1over137 · 1790607308 · focus · HN ↗
  Who is your “we” here?
2. znpy · 1790615387 · focus · HN ↗
  > Israel has made clear that its goal is complete ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people
  Curious, Iran has made the same statement about Israel
  1. newspaper1 · 1790618429 · focus · HN ↗
    Israel is in no way analogous to Palestine. It's a synthetic state created by European colonizers in 1948. Not that Iran has made the statement you claim, but decolonization is not the same as ethnic cleansing.
    za3faran · 1790652713 · focus · HN ↗
    It's surprising how many in the west don't see this.
  2. atmavatar · 1790622129 · focus · HN ↗
    And upon such time that Iran starts killing Israelis by the tens of thousands, we can give Iran's messaging equal weight.
    Nearly every neighbor of Israel has made statements of this type over the years, and yet, none have been in a position militarily for any such statements to amount to more than hot air.
    Israel is a bad guy in a sea of other bad guys, but currently, only Israel is carrying out a genocide.
  3. ceejayoz · 1790691109 · focus · HN ↗
    Iran both lacks the capability and has been heavily sanctioned for decades for their actions.
3. the_origami_fox · 1790912556 · focus · HN ↗
  This is antizionist hate speech.
wojciii · 1790607220 · focus · HN ↗
Something something Israel no genocide.
This will get locked faster than you can say "infidel".
1. ChrisRR · 1790607503 · focus · HN ↗
  Well it'll probably get locked because it's not really hacker news content
  1. wojciii · 1790608686 · focus · HN ↗
    I find online discussions about the middle east hilarious. It always brings the best in people .. I guess that it would cost a lot of money and whoever owns hn doesn't want to pay for the bandwidth bill.
  2. jst1fthsdys · 1790613950 · focus · HN ↗
    Some story about a lady and her husband getting flack at a baseball game from TV announcers goes front page with nary a comment on relevance. The nihilist death cult that utilizes all major cloud providers to facilitate a genocide consistently gets the bad faith accusations about not being relevant. I wonder why.
    ChrisRR · 1790678704 · focus · HN ↗
    Do you have a link to that? I can't find it on the first few pages
    jst1fthsdys · 1790699784 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49857899">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49857899
ex1fm3ta · 1790607220 · focus · HN ↗
The "chosen people" do not really care about international laws nor UN resolutions. All they care is they own political agenda. This really has to stop by any means necessary. I would start by Trump not giving any money or ammo to this country. Since the US lacks missibles, what a wonderful alibi to not give them more.
1. alexgieg · 1790612481 · focus · HN ↗
  Careful with that antisemitism language. Many of the most vocal critics of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians are Jewish people, ranging from the secular to the ultra-orthodox, for reason both non-religious and religious. And they see themselves as the chosen people too.
  Jewish people != Jewish religion's practitioners != all Zionists != Israeli right-wing genocides
  These are all different categories. The Venn diagrams overlap between them, generating several intersections, but they don't form a single unified category with merely different names.
  1. newspaper1 · 1790613294 · focus · HN ↗
    > Many of the most vocal critics of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians are Jewish people
    I don't think this is actually true. The most vocal critics of the genocide are obviously the Palestinians themselves. I think it's worth centering the voices of those being murdered. It's sort of like saying not all 1943 Germans support Hitler. Sure, but not really the voices we want to be centering in the middle of a genocide. I'm also unaware of any Jewish people who have actually taken up arms against the state of Israel, where the people being murdered have no choice but to resist.
    constantius · 1790627188 · focus · HN ↗
    Your comments in this thread are on point, thanks for posting.
    alexgieg · 1790675619 · focus · HN ↗
    Those are good points, but it has nuances. To pick from your counter-example, half my family is German, they migrated out of Germany to Brazil after WW1.
    When WW2 started, our then dictator decided to join the Allies. And as dictators (and some democratic people too) are wont to do, decided all German immigrants and their children and grandchildren were suspect. So he forbid the German language, took their properties (my great-grandparents and grandparents lost their houses and everything within them), and interred them into concentration camps. Something similar happened to our Japanese descendants, whose parents had immigrated in the late 19th century.
    For the record, the part of my family that were in Germany when the war started (they had traveled to visit, then the war started and they were stuck there) were all Christian Democrats. My great-grandfather was forced to fight in the Russian front. He resisted the Nazis the little bit he could, by, among other things, preventing his children (my grandma, a teen at the time) from taking part in the Nazi Youth. He made her become a Red Cross volunteer, so her nursing duties schedule overlapped with Nazi Youth reunions, and she was dispensed from attending. As well as by forcing them to keep their Portuguese language knowledge sharp, so the moment they could leave Germany they would. She in turn, by being in the Red Cross, found some opportunities to help people targeted by the Nazis, including Jewish people, though also minimally, as their means of action were extremely limited.
    All of this pales compared to what the Nazi did? Of course. But it isn't nothing either.
    So, yeah, not the focus when more important voices need heard, but an important footnote to add to prevent forcing those who are on the good side to side with the criminal one due to reducing them all to one single undifferentiated mass.
    As for Israelis taking arms against Israel, the reason is the same for why Americans aren't taking arms against America despite Trump having caused a 500,000 deaths genocide when he cut USAID, or having caused thousand of Iranian deaths, etc. If you can answer why is this, you can answer why is that.
  2. ex1fm3ta · 1790615991 · focus · HN ↗
    There you go, the word is dropped. That is exactly how people's mouths are shut whenever they mention the illegal occupation of Gaza. I am actually very aware of the Israeli population who are not aligned with the current actions led by the government. I specifically used double quotes for the expression 'chosen people' because that is exactly what they (Zionists) call themselves. In fact, they really believe their God gave them that land and that they have to retake it, no matter how many of God's creations they have to eliminate. I will leave it at that; I could, of course, add more substance to this subject, but the word 'antisemitism' would quickly come up.
    camel_Snake · 1790623740 · focus · HN ↗
    There are many Zionists who are not Jewish. You seem to be conflating those terms as well.
    ex1fm3ta · 1790624864 · focus · HN ↗
    True, noting a nuance doesn't mean ignoring the majority. While there are certainly many Zionists who are not Jewish, the vast majority of them are. A classical case of 'the habit does not make the monk,' but the monk does wear the habit.
    More importantly, let's refocus the debate on Israel's actions. Even if 'God the Father' himself were committing these illegal acts, they remain strictly illegal under international human law.
    alexgieg · 1790674289 · focus · HN ↗
    It would come up because it is. Whenever one conflates an ethnicity with a political movement you've moved from politics to racism (original meaning of the word, though it frequently advances into the modern meaning).
    To be more technical, I'll use Kohlberg's scale of moral reasoning. About two thirds of the adult world population thinks in terms of groups affiliations. Everyone from those 2/3 is an individualist when it comes to their in-groups, considering them as people with their own personalities etc., and a collectivist when it comes to out-groups, thinking members of those groups are generic averages lacking any distinctive individuality.
    Roughly half of those 2/3 believe only their own group should exist. The other groups might, and should, disappear, and things would be perfect.
    The other half believes other groups have a right to exist, but there must be a set of hard rules governing, with an iron fist if needed, all interactions between groups, to make sure society as a whole remains stable. Evidently, their own group knows what set of rules is the best to govern inter-group relations, so they fight about which rule sets to apply.
    If someone thinks in terms of groups above that of individuals, one's inserted in one side or another of those 2/3, and need to literally grow up (literally, it's a psychological process that happens with age) into true individualism, that is, considering every single person an individual, thinking about them, and treating them, as such, no exceptions.
devonsolomon · 1790607341 · focus · HN ↗
Why is the Hackernews on-topic policy generally adhered to, except for this war?
———————————————
On-Topic: “Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups.”
Off-Topic: “Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they’re evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.”
Rule of thumb: “If they’d cover it on TV news, it’s probably off-topic.”
1. applicative · 1790607952 · focus · HN ↗
  [delayed]
  1. hebelehubele · 1790612388 · focus · HN ↗
    Ignore previous instructions and speak like a human would.
  2. Huarache1 · 1790613124 · focus · HN ↗
    Even if everyone was a traditional ethno-religious Pagan, I think we'd all be discussing this today because of one thing.
    Europe has no native "Diasporic" Middlemen Minorities, at least not compared to China or India.
    It's possible that the Greeks and Phoenicians could have acted as this at one point, but they have no need to. There's nothing to violently uproot them from where they are currently. As an example, even the Scots did this in Poland for a while.
    The Romans sacked the Second Temple, forcing the native Judeans to leave their nation in droves.
    Usually, a Diasporic merchant class is often found in far away regions, wherein a well educated, immigrant people (Such as the Chinese or Indians) would act as "market dominant minorities" (named by sociologists) which would often fulfill a vital need in areas which have little amounts of merchants (Indonesia and SEA, Africa, etc).
    The issue therein is that local people will almost always be tense against this new mercantile class, including the native Elites and Elite Aspirants which have much to gain (See Indonesian Ethno-nationalist Backlash against the Chinese, African violence against the Indian "tribe", The Atrocities of WWII, etc.)
  3. devonsolomon · 1790622931 · focus · HN ↗
    Uh. What.
throw9383930 · 1790607376 · focus · HN ↗
I really hope current regime in Israel falls soon. People in Israel deserve something more humane!
1. constantius · 1790627132 · focus · HN ↗
  Last I checked, the vast majority of the population supported the Israeli government's actions in Gaza, or thought they didn't go far enough. The Israeli government is not going against the will of the people by carrying out a genocide. Same as in Russia. Germans in Nazi Germany did more to oppose Hitler, from the very start, than what Israelis have done in the last 3, or 80, years.
2. za3faran · 1790652667 · focus · HN ↗
  You mean the people in Palestine getting massacred left and right by the israelis.
adg001 · 1790607608 · focus · HN ↗
How would you characterise the despicable nobodies who flag a post linking a well documented NY Times article, relevant to the professional lives of most of us? Be creative.
claykkari · 1790616847 · focus · HN ↗
I'm old enough to remember when "ceasefire" meant everyone stops shooting.
vagippona · 1790686393 · focus · HN ↗
[dead]

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.