Thread

1. ex1fm3ta · 1790607220 · focus · HN ↗

   The "chosen people" do not really care about international laws nor UN resolutions. All they care is they own political agenda. This really has to stop by any means necessary. I would start by Trump not giving any money or ammo to this country. Since the US lacks missibles, what a wonderful alibi to not give them more.

   1. alexgieg · 1790612481 · focus · HN ↗

      Careful with that antisemitism language. Many of the most vocal critics of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians are Jewish people, ranging from the secular to the ultra-orthodox, for reason both non-religious and religious. And they see themselves as the chosen people too.

      Jewish people != Jewish religion's practitioners != all Zionists != Israeli right-wing genocides

      These are all different categories. The Venn diagrams overlap between them, generating several intersections, but they don't form a single unified category with merely different names.

      1. newspaper1 · 1790613294 · focus · HN ↗

         > Many of the most vocal critics of the Israeli genocide of Palestinians are Jewish people

         I don't think this is actually true. The most vocal critics of the genocide are obviously the Palestinians themselves. I think it's worth centering the voices of those being murdered. It's sort of like saying not all 1943 Germans support Hitler. Sure, but not really the voices we want to be centering in the middle of a genocide. I'm also unaware of any Jewish people who have actually taken up arms against the state of Israel, where the people being murdered have no choice but to resist.

         1. constantius · 1790627188 · focus · HN ↗

            Your comments in this thread are on point, thanks for posting.
         2. alexgieg · 1790675619 · focus · HN ↗

            Those are good points, but it has nuances. To pick from your counter-example, half my family is German, they migrated out of Germany to Brazil after WW1.

            When WW2 started, our then dictator decided to join the Allies. And as dictators (and some democratic people too) are wont to do, decided all German immigrants and their children and grandchildren were suspect. So he forbid the German language, took their properties (my great-grandparents and grandparents lost their houses and everything within them), and interred them into concentration camps. Something similar happened to our Japanese descendants, whose parents had immigrated in the late 19th century.

            For the record, the part of my family that were in Germany when the war started (they had traveled to visit, then the war started and they were stuck there) were all Christian Democrats. My great-grandfather was forced to fight in the Russian front. He resisted the Nazis the little bit he could, by, among other things, preventing his children (my grandma, a teen at the time) from taking part in the Nazi Youth. He made her become a Red Cross volunteer, so her nursing duties schedule overlapped with Nazi Youth reunions, and she was dispensed from attending. As well as by forcing them to keep their Portuguese language knowledge sharp, so the moment they could leave Germany they would. She in turn, by being in the Red Cross, found some opportunities to help people targeted by the Nazis, including Jewish people, though also minimally, as their means of action were extremely limited.

            All of this pales compared to what the Nazi did? Of course. But it isn't nothing either.

            So, yeah, not the focus when more important voices need heard, but an important footnote to add to prevent forcing those who are on the good side to side with the criminal one due to reducing them all to one single undifferentiated mass.

            As for Israelis taking arms against Israel, the reason is the same for why Americans aren't taking arms against America despite Trump having caused a 500,000 deaths genocide when he cut USAID, or having caused thousand of Iranian deaths, etc. If you can answer why is this, you can answer why is that.

      2. ex1fm3ta · 1790615991 · focus · HN ↗

         There you go, the word is dropped. That is exactly how people's mouths are shut whenever they mention the illegal occupation of Gaza. I am actually very aware of the Israeli population who are not aligned with the current actions led by the government. I specifically used double quotes for the expression 'chosen people' because that is exactly what they (Zionists) call themselves. In fact, they really believe their God gave them that land and that they have to retake it, no matter how many of God's creations they have to eliminate. I will leave it at that; I could, of course, add more substance to this subject, but the word 'antisemitism' would quickly come up.

         1. camel_Snake · 1790623740 · focus · HN ↗

            There are many Zionists who are not Jewish. You seem to be conflating those terms as well.

            1. ex1fm3ta · 1790624864 · focus · HN ↗

               True, noting a nuance doesn't mean ignoring the majority. While there are certainly many Zionists who are not Jewish, the vast majority of them are. A classical case of 'the habit does not make the monk,' but the monk does wear the habit.

               More importantly, let's refocus the debate on Israel's actions. Even if 'God the Father' himself were committing these illegal acts, they remain strictly illegal under international human law.

         2. alexgieg · 1790674289 · focus · HN ↗

            It would come up because it is. Whenever one conflates an ethnicity with a political movement you've moved from politics to racism (original meaning of the word, though it frequently advances into the modern meaning).

            To be more technical, I'll use Kohlberg's scale of moral reasoning. About two thirds of the adult world population thinks in terms of groups affiliations. Everyone from those 2/3 is an individualist when it comes to their in-groups, considering them as people with their own personalities etc., and a collectivist when it comes to out-groups, thinking members of those groups are generic averages lacking any distinctive individuality.

            Roughly half of those 2/3 believe only their own group should exist. The other groups might, and should, disappear, and things would be perfect.

            The other half believes other groups have a right to exist, but there must be a set of hard rules governing, with an iron fist if needed, all interactions between groups, to make sure society as a whole remains stable. Evidently, their own group knows what set of rules is the best to govern inter-group relations, so they fight about which rule sets to apply.

            If someone thinks in terms of groups above that of individuals, one's inserted in one side or another of those 2/3, and need to literally grow up (literally, it's a psychological process that happens with age) into true individualism, that is, considering every single person an individual, thinking about them, and treating them, as such, no exceptions.

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