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What is the size of Yemen? (2024)

262 points · 88 comments · kspacewalk2

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thr0waway001 · 1790479144 · focus · HN ↗
15 Yemen Road, Yemen
1. alentred · 1790493766 · focus · HN ↗
  I will write you every day.
  (I suppose people downvoting this don’t know the reference. Way to make us feel old :) )
  1. defrost · 1790494055 · focus · HN ↗
    HN eschews pop culture references, the down voters are almost certain to include those that are aware of US sitcoms.
mc32 · 1790479386 · focus · HN ↗
This happens more frequently then one imagines. Quite a few things fail to start from scratch and instead rely on compounded errors over time. Projections, budgets, etc., are sometimes based on stale information.
hbroom · 1790481066 · focus · HN ↗
Always picture it larger, but it's roughly the size of France. Makes you wonder about logistical challenges there.
Aerroon · 1790481434 · focus · HN ↗
I did not expect this to just be a simple mistake, especially one that's been around for decades. Makes you wonder what other kind of basic facts are wrong.
In the age of satellites, computers, Google maps and the like you would think a mistake like this would be impossible to persist for so long.
1. AlotOfReading · 1790483383 · focus · HN ↗
  These kinds of issues have existed since the first human started recording what they owned, and will probably continue plaguing us until the last one dies.
  1. vijayr02 · 1790500865 · focus · HN ↗
    No - only till the second last one dies.
2. wmf · 1790484916 · focus · HN ↗
  A bunch of countries are suspected of undercounting their population because so many people are living "off the grid" or deliberately overcounting to get more funding. Probably some of the cases are real and some are just conspiracy theories.
3. kqr · 1790495414 · focus · HN ↗
  Imagine how much of published science is statistically significant only due to clerical errors and mistakes in calculation...
  (See e.g. The misreporting of statistical results in psychology journals; Bakker, Wicherts; Behaviour Research Methods; 2011.)
burlesona · 1790482752 · focus · HN ↗
What I wonder is why anyone noticed this in the first place. Who saw the size of the country in Wikipedia and thought, “really? Let me trace that in Google maps, just to be sure…”
1. edoceo · 1790487329 · focus · HN ↗
  Something about eyeballs and all bugs being shallow...
2. t-3 · 1790487504 · focus · HN ↗
  I actually measured the size of (parts of) Yemen on maps a week or two ago, trying to figure out the population density of the Houthi-controlled areas, which contain the majority (~70-80%, hard to say exactly as the population distribution has been changing rapidly in the past decade) of Yemen's population in about 1/3 of it's land.
aaron695 · 1790482774 · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
lappet · 1790483234 · focus · HN ↗
Great article. Somehow, this gives me hope that curiosity can still be rewarded in this age of information at our fingertips.
1. rpozarickij · 1790486039 · focus · HN ↗
  Although I do hope too that people don't lose their sense of meaning and curiosity too much, it's worth keeping in mind that this article was published in 2024 which was a very different world from now. Curiosity requires energy, and it'll be hard for a creature relying on energy for survival to justify using their own energy for some activity when there's a more energy-efficient way to reach a specific goal. But just like going to the gym makes your body healthier despite the fact this requires energy, thinking on your own will be increasingly important for maintaining a healthy mind and the sense of self.
em-bee · 1790483291 · focus · HN ↗
this was posted on 27. of november 2024. on the 3rd of december someone found a correct looking number in a yemen government document which was published in 2005 and updated wikipedia. so at least the country itself was not under any illusion of being bigger than they actually are.
1. lopis · 1790486752 · focus · HN ↗
  Ah I'm glad. That's much better than the solution I had in mind of using the sand from the desert to expand the land into the sea to add extra 100k km of land area, to hide all this embarrassment under the rug.
  1. pseudohadamard · 1790567410 · focus · HN ↗
    That would have to be a pretty big rug. I actually know some rug merchants in New York who are having a going-out-of-business sale who might be able to help.
2. slyall · 1790644525 · focus · HN ↗
  The author was one of the people involved in the wikipedia discussion
  They knew the figure was wrong but needed a document with the correct figure they could reference.
  1. em-bee · 1790735517 · focus · HN ↗
    i figured there was some connection, but i didn't expect the author to be involved because i would have expected that they update the article and mention that they found a document and fixed wikipedia.
dehrmann · 1790485466 · focus · HN ↗
This is why you read the code, not the documentation.
reassess_blind · 1790488521 · focus · HN ↗
I wonder if you sum every countries claimed size, how far off it is from the actual total land on Earth.
1. cozzyd · 1790489075 · focus · HN ↗
  Well, this is a pretty perfect usecase for AI (although it's also easy to just get shapefiles from NE and do it yourself, obviously).
  Interestingly all of UAE, Yemen and Saudi Arabia have significant discrepancies between the World Factbook and their shapefiles (in every case overestimating), probably all related to not having had a demarcated border in the Rub Al Khali.
  1. reassess_blind · 1790493803 · focus · HN ↗
    A quick lazy calculation (including adding in Antartica) the countries totals came up ~2,000,000km2 short. I don't care enough to dive deeper, but if no one is claiming that land I'll happily take it.
mikelitoris · 1790491360 · focus · HN ↗
Ye man, this is crazy
walrus01 · 1790491413 · focus · HN ↗
I think a more important question is whether Yemen still exists as as single coherent political entity with the same borders as seen on ANY of those maps, which given the present situation, it clearly does not.
edit: map here <a href="https://understandingwar.org/research/middle-east/iran-update-september-25-2026/" rel="nofollow">https://understandingwar.org/research/middle-east/iran-updat...
and here: <a href="https://yemen.liveuamap.com/" rel="nofollow">https://yemen.liveuamap.com/
1. throwaway27448 · 1790494056 · focus · HN ↗
  Yet! Ansarallah is really on a roll these days. I would be lying if I said I don't want them to succeed. After more than a decade of watching them persevere through bombing and starvation, it's honestly quite inspirational.
  1. 3848484848 · 1790496188 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
  2. throwaway198846 · 1790496734 · focus · HN ↗
    Nobody who isn't a Shia Islamist should want them to succeed ("God is the Greatest, Death to America, Death to Israel, Curse the Jews, Victory to Islam").
    Ambolia · 1790499368 · focus · HN ↗
    The current Minister of Defence of the Houthi government is Sunni.
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Atifi" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Atifi
    throwaway198846 · 1790505110 · focus · HN ↗
    I did consider writing (Shia) instead of Shia but I still think it is mistake from a long term perspective due to previous history between shia and sunni.
    throwaway27448 · 1790501410 · focus · HN ↗
    Fortunately, I have basic media literacy and such tricks don't work on me.
    phsau · 1790501810 · focus · HN ↗
    Does that basic literacy include reading their flag?
    throwaway27448 · 1790501872 · focus · HN ↗
    Why should I care more about a flag than material reality? We are the actual murderers in this situation.
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93present)" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen_(2016%E2%80%93...
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_attack" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Minab_school_attack
    Thankfully, the axis of resistance seems to be standing up for themselves just fine.
    ...and no, I don't endorse any state involved. I just know evil when I see it, because I'm a blue blooded christian and I give a shit about humanity.
    rightnutwingjob · 1790502433 · focus · HN ↗
    > I have basic media literacy and such tricks don't work on me.
    > We are the actual murderers in this situation.
    throwaway27448 · 1790502493 · focus · HN ↗
    Are you unaware of our involvement in the area? I suggest clicking on the links in my comment. Any decent response would involve deposing both the saudi arabian government and our own, including many high-level state department officials, and charging them with crimes against humanity. Probably a few other dozen states, too.
    But international law is a joke these days, so humanity will let the missiles do diplomacy instead.
    ...
    Look, obviously violence is bad. But we have made such a farce of all other ways of negotiating conflict that it's refreshing to see people stand up for themselves without our permission.
    rightnutwingjob · 1790503039 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49864963">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49864963
    throwaway27448 · 1790504892 · focus · HN ↗
    I said that ^
    For posterity, in response to "Idk, supporting literal terrorism is pretty trendy these days":
    > Inexplicably, people do tend to vote here. I do, however, condemn the state of the united states of america—the map of the world would certainly be much improved without that name on it.
    arczyx · 1790502854 · focus · HN ↗
    Given what the US and Israel did to them it's not surprising.
    throwaway198846 · 1790505580 · focus · HN ↗
    Ignoring the curse upon Jews and and victory to Islam, how convenient.
    Israel didn't lift a finger to hurt them before they attacked Israel but nice try to confuse cause and effect.
    mrexcess · 1790506119 · focus · HN ↗
    Swapping “Jews” for “Israel” like that seems a certain way.
    Do you think Yemenis deserve to choose who their government is?
    throwaway198846 · 1790509161 · focus · HN ↗
    > Swapping “Jews” for “Israel” like that seems a certain way.
    I didn't swap those, their saying includes both Jews and Israel. What is a certain way, I'm confused.
    throwaway27448 · 1790509815 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm against killing people until they do bad.
    Besides, let's not pretend like Israel isn't a resevoir of hate against arabs and muslims—they are defacto a jewish supremacist state. By any measure that Ansarallah is worth attacking, surely Israel deserves this many times over for acting on their violent bigotry for decades before any of us were born.
    throwaway198846 · 1790511991 · focus · HN ↗
    This doesn't answer my clarification request from mrexcess.
    arczyx · 1790671582 · focus · HN ↗
    > Israel didn't lift a finger to hurt them before they attacked Israel
    Israel is genociding Gaza and still killing people and stealing more lands in the West Bank. Under international law, we are required to do whatever necessary to stop a genocide. Unfortunately only Yemen that step up to actually do that. The US and other western countries keep supporting the genocide.
  3. badnew · 1790496825 · focus · HN ↗
    There are only very bad reasons why you would want these people to succeed
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthis#Human_rights_violations" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthis#Human_rights_violation...
    throwaway27448 · 1790501705 · focus · HN ↗
    We can all play this game.
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saudi_Arabia
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_of_the_2026_Iran_war#Legality" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_of_the_2026_Iran_war#...
    I can continue for another dozens or hundreds of articles but I suspect you're well aware of our crimes and simply don't care. And this isn't even remotely touching our domestic crimes.
    I know what imperialism looks like. Maybe we should clean up our own house before bombing and choking out others.There's always time to come clean before God—or if you don't believe in God, at least, before our children.
    Let's not pretend the whole world doesn't see Israel dog-walking us like the spineless cowards we are.
    badnew · 1790513216 · focus · HN ↗
    You are hopelessly lost, good luck
    Obscurity4340 · 1790529726 · focus · HN ↗
    I'll pray for you
    reliabilityguy · 1790540494 · focus · HN ↗
    I am confused. Are you ashamed of “our” crimes (I’m not who the “our” refers to), and this is why you are fine with the atrocities done by Houthis?
  4. walrus01 · 1790497017 · focus · HN ↗
    This has to be some kind of bait
    badnew · 1790497070 · focus · HN ↗
    Idk, supporting literal terrorism is pretty trendy these days
    bluealienpie · 1790498178 · focus · HN ↗
    Like bombing innocent people in boats for a crime that would require a trial and not be illegible for death sentence?
    badnew · 1790498636 · focus · HN ↗
    Which innocent people are you talking about exactly?
    scheme271 · 1790501520 · focus · HN ↗
    I think it's a reference to the US bombing small boats in the caribbean and eastern pacific with claims that they were drug smugglers.
    throwaway27448 · 1790501578 · focus · HN ↗
    Presumably they're referring to stuff like this: <a href="https://www.hrw.org/report/2026/07/21/a-dangerous-partnership/abuses-unanswered-questions-and-us-ecuador-security" rel="nofollow">https://www.hrw.org/report/2026/07/21/a-dangerous-partnershi...
    rightnutwingjob · 1790502758 · focus · HN ↗
    > documents three incidents that saw ordinary people subjected to abuses, including drone strikes, torture, and arbitrary detention. In a fourth case, a fishing boat and most of its crew went missing amid signs of another attack.
    That is unfortunate.
    Are you going to bother to mention the millions who have been affected by imported drugs?
    throwaway27448 · 1790504787 · focus · HN ↗
    Is there any evidence they are not just blowing up random people?
    badnew · 1790512849 · focus · HN ↗
    You, knowing absolutely nothing about the inner workings of the counter-narcotics operations, assert that there is no evidence that those people are drug runners, based only on ignorance of the facts, yet you are also apparently perfectly content to not provide any evidence to the contrary (that they are indeed systematically killing "random people"), despite the fact that such a claim is completely absurd, and you don't see any contradiction?
    [deleted] · 1790520351 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    D-Coder · 1790521265 · focus · HN ↗
    > knowing absolutely nothing about the inner workings of the counter-narcotics operations, assert that there is no evidence that those people are drug runners
    Well, he's correct that there is no evidence known to him, so there IS no evidence known to him.
    To my knowledge, the administration has not released any evidence, only claims: "We know they are drug smugglers and we have evidence that we will not show you."
    badnew · 1790530577 · focus · HN ↗
    So there are drug smugglers, but the US isn't targeting them, they're targeting random boats, and the US is doing this for some reason which is apparently clear to OP but hasn't been made clear to us, and that somehow is the simplest explanation for what's going on, despite being entirely absurd?
    AngryData · 1790536359 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh no drugs, good thing drug crimes come with a death sentence! Even better when it is an extrajudicial death sentence!
    [deleted] · 1790849078 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    t-3 · 1790584949 · focus · HN ↗
    If you want to live somewhere suspected drug dealers get summary execution in the streets and death sentences, move to the Philippines or China. Don't try to bring that nonsense here.
    rightnutwingjob · 1790849153 · focus · HN ↗
    If you want to live somewhere South Sudanese get about in shopping centres with machetes, car jacking, and stabbing people on the streets… Maybe don’t come to Australia.
    Sooner or later, the West needs to wake up and realise that empathy for the offenders over empathy for the victims, hasn’t worked.
    And that includes meth and heroin dealers.
    Marijuana, meh, stupid drug anyway. But I know too many people who used weed long term and now have chronic psychosis, so yeah that ain’t great.
    t-3 · 1790858888 · focus · HN ↗
    That's a problem with your local law enforcement failing to enforce the law. Crime has been dropping where I live almost every year I've been alive, and that's all about opportunity and jobs rather than jackbooted thugs delivering vigilante justice.
    adaml_623 · 1790502478 · focus · HN ↗
    Legal definition reminder:
    Innocent until proven guilty.
    Relevance:
    Legal protection in place to protect innocent people. Like you and your family.
    rightnutwingjob · 1790502598 · focus · HN ↗
    Drug smugglers.
    We’ve devolved from the proverbial slap on the wrist to the practice of a pat on the back and we’ll wishes.
    Anything short of that is viewed as a a crime agonist humanity.
    Tostino · 1790503006 · focus · HN ↗
    Were they charged and convicted with a crime? Maybe they should have been...but we'll never know now.
    badnew · 1790513271 · focus · HN ↗
    I think that illegally crossing a country's border, especially as part of a drug cartel's narcotics operations, tends to carry some risk
    Tostino · 1790513855 · focus · HN ↗
    What specific border are you talking about?
    badnew · 1790514455 · focus · HN ↗
    Any country
    doublerebel · 1790502989 · focus · HN ↗
    Eligible: qualified for
    Illegible: unreadable
    throwaway27448 · 1790501438 · focus · HN ↗
    Inexplicably, people do tend to vote here.
    arczyx · 1790502965 · focus · HN ↗
    Yeah sadly some people still supports the US and Israel considering how many hospitals they bombed so far.
    badnew · 1790513471 · focus · HN ↗
    "The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy." - Fourth Geneva Convention, Article 19(1)
    [deleted] · 1790520487 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    arczyx · 1790671772 · focus · HN ↗
    There is literally no evidence at all the hospitals in Gaza are used for military purpose other than Israel's statements (and they botched attempt to fabricate evidence by placing guns in MRI machine of all place).
    US and Israel also bombs hospital in Iran even though it's obviously clear that Iran doesn't fire ballistic missiles and drones from it.
    badnew · 1790772829 · focus · HN ↗
    Show me a picture of a single major Hamas military base that is not embedded in or under civilian infrastructure, just one, and I'll answer your question. Not a training camp, not an outpost, a major military base.
    arczyx · 1790904325 · focus · HN ↗
    There isn't a picture of it because it doesn't exist? They have bunkers deep underground and that's it? Israel bombed civilian infrastructure because they want to kill civilians, the bunkers underground are just fine. Or else why would you think Hamas still exist today even though basically all of Gaza's building is obliterated?
    Meanwhile Israel claim every hospital in Gaza is a Hamas base without any proof, not a single photo at all. Burden of proof is on the accuser, if you support Israel's claim, you should be the one providing evidence.
    Note that Israelis already admitted they intentionally targeted civilians, <a href="https://www.lemkininstitute.com/single-post/israeli-soldiers-admit-killing-palestinians-in-gaza-no-matter-the-age-even-if-unarmed" rel="nofollow">https://www.lemkininstitute.com/single-post/israeli-soldiers...
    > The first major case to break headlines in western media was the murder of two Christian women at Gaza City’s Holy Family Church on 16 December 2023. A Palestinian Catholic mother and her daughter were killed by an Israeli sniper while seeking refuge inside the church compound, resulting in condemnation from the pope.
    > In January 2024, British broadcaster ITV captured the moment when 51-year-old Ramzi Abu Sahloul was shot through the chest, only moments after he had spoken on air. Sahloul was part of a group of civilians who were fleeing to Rafah in Gaza’s south while holding white flags on the orders of the Israeli military.
    And that's not even mentioning their pogrom in the West Bank right now, <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/west-bank/2026-10-01/ty-article/.premium/israeli-settlers-shoot-and-kill-palestinian-wound-others-in-west-bank-village/000001a0-f767-de52-afe1-f7e7fcd00000" rel="nofollow">https://www.haaretz.com/west-bank/2026-10-01/ty-article/.pre...
    badnew · 1790952362 · focus · HN ↗
    > There isn't a picture of it because it doesn't exist?
    > Or else why would you think Hamas still exist today even though basically all of Gaza's building is obliterated?
    Ok, now put two and two together. You're close. I'll give you a hint:
    <a href="https://stratcomcoe.org/pdfjs/?file=/publications/download/hamas_human_shields.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://stratcomcoe.org/pdfjs/?file=/publications/download/h...
    "The strategic logic of human shields has two components. It is based on an awareness of Israel's desire to minimise collateral damage, and of Western public opinion's sensitivity towards civilian casualties. If the IDF uses lethal force and causes an increase in civilian casualties, Hamas can utilise that as a lawfare tool: it can accuse Israel of committing war crimes, which could result in the imposition of a wide array of sanctions.
    Alternatively, if the IDF limits its use of military force in Gaza to avoid collateral damage, Hamas will be less susceptible to Israeli attacks, and thereby able to protect its assets while continuing to fight."
    arczyx · 1791078091 · focus · HN ↗
    What you linked is literally a bunch of self-claim by Israel like I said. "Oh there is a bunch of civilians on the roof, let's just circle two of them and call them terrorists".
    Provide real evidence that's not just "IDF said so". Thoughy you probably can't, because if you can, you wouldn't give a random pdf from a NATO propaganda think tank instead of a real source.
    Meanwhile Israel's use of using Palestinians as human shields are well-documented by Israel's own organizations:
    <a href="https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields" rel="nofollow">https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields
    <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2025-05-24/ty-article/israeli-use-of-human-shields-in-gaza-was-systemic-soldiers-and-former-detainees-tell-ap/00000197-01e6-dc94-ab97-0fee1dd40000" rel="nofollow">https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2025-05-24/ty-artic...
    <a href="https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/?ci=143" rel="nofollow">https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/testimonies/database/?...
    badnew · 1791099648 · focus · HN ↗
    You are not arguing in good faith, instead you are arguing in an adversarial manner. You're not engaging with my points at all, instead you are relying on fallacious logic. I'm sorry that your upbringing has robbed you of a critical mind. Good luck.
  5. 468854259853 · 1790500366 · focus · HN ↗
    Too bad you weren't beheaded by your precious jihadist comrades.
2. brimwats · 1790740340 · focus · HN ↗
  looks very much like the old north and south yemen borders doesn't it?
asveikau · 1790492275 · focus · HN ↗
I remember hearing from a Yemeni American in the late 90s that the border with Saudi was not defined (mentioned in the article). I wonder if this could be explained more simply that a few sources didn't bother to update this over time due to the ambiguity, they just carried over what had been published before.
1. walrus01 · 1790497967 · focus · HN ↗
  A casual review of the satellite view of the border with Saudi Arabia shows that much of it is desolate uninhabited sand dunes, so it's not like there's border markers such as the US/Canada have. Or likely an accurate survey (you'd need high precision GNSS equipment and something that can traverse serious sand dunes as a vehicle, because no fixed markers and traditional surveying methods have any chance of success there).
  1. inglor_cz · 1790501991 · focus · HN ↗
    Historically, borders in inhospitable regions where the government cannot project power used to be vague.
    Early Medieval European kingdoms usually had border forests, sometimes quite deep (50-100 km), where one end of the forest was definitely Bohemian and the other end definitely Saxon or Austrian, but the exact demarcation within it bothered no one.
    There were only two kinds of people crossing them: invading armies and long-distance traders on very few walkable paths. The latter would be taxed prior to entering the city markets, not on the border. The former would be interested in sieging strongholds deeper in the enemy territory, not in taking a slice of wooded territory on the border.
kqr · 1790495782 · focus · HN ↗
This reminds me of what Deming used to say: there is no correct value for any measurement, there are only the outcomes of methods chosen to measure something.
bambax · 1790496155 · focus · HN ↗
Great article. I wonder if the sum of the land areas of all countries on earth matches the global size of emerged land? Or are there other similar errors?
f055 · 1790501753 · focus · HN ↗
Human civilisation is built on such lies ;)
theteapot · 1790501910 · focus · HN ↗
I suppose it's not worth checking whether Google maps areas are measured using spherical geometry?
1. titanomachy · 1790520905 · focus · HN ↗
  You could check, but it would be quite shocking if they weren’t.
postsantum · 1790503233 · focus · HN ↗
> I delved into
delved
jdhzzz · 1790508758 · focus · HN ↗
It's an AI hallucination in slow motion.
yreg · 1790508784 · focus · HN ↗
This is such a nice article!
arthur18097612 · 1790521742 · focus · HN ↗
a nice article!
tracnar · 1790524564 · focus · HN ↗
This makes me wonder, what's the difference between the 2D area and the 3D topographic surface area? Is the latter even ever measured?
1. eigenspace · 1790527584 · focus · HN ↗
  3D topographic surface area has the "coastline problem" where the more precisely you measure it, the more it grows.
  2D area is stable under increasing measurement precision.
MotoriX · 1790600952 · focus · HN ↗
A 100-year-old data bug propagated through the entire knowledge base because nobody bothered to add a test.

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