If you want to own your computer, linux is where it's at. Windows is rusty iron chains and MacOS's are gold-plated silver pretending to be gold, but they're still chains.
I would love to move my gaming PC to Linux but until the kernel devs permit kernel-level anti-cheats, or an equivalent, I refuse to give up games that I love. It's nearly impossible to play multiplayer games now without KLAC. The cheating is out of control.
Unfortunately this is an ideological hill that many Linux devs are willing to die on, so we're at an impasse. Valve claimed to be working on a solution, and if there is any company which can negotiate an accord, it's them.
Wow, you really dont understand the concept that people are different and have different opinion do you. You are entitled to think what you want, but why tell other people they are wrong in what they think and like?
Playing slot machines absolutely is many peoples' hobby, unfortunately.
As others have said, why didn't you list out your hobbies (as I did mine), so we can understand exactly what recreational activities you think constitute "valid" hobbies? That will also make it easier for me to explain the difference between video games and slot machines to you.
How is Exapunks[1] anything like a slot machine? Or Slay the Princess[2]? Or Minecraft? A blanket statement like "video games = slot machines" just doesn't work. I won't deny that there are many games that are predatory/mindless, but video games are such a broad medium.
What are you on about? You clearly don't like video games and think they're a waste of time, which is fine. Other people do like them and find them fulfilling for whatever reason, which is also fine.
Why are you trying so hard to "prove" that someone's hobby is a waste of time?
> When your grandkids ask you what you did with your finite time, is "I pwned noobs" the answer you want to give?
You are being ridiculous. First, unless the person was a professional gamer they would probably answer with the time they spend at work and time time they spend raising their family. But let's assume the grandkids specifically asked what they did for entertainment.
The answer would then be something like "I got together with my friends and we played the popular online games together". They would probably also mention any other things they did a lot of entertainment, too.
But why do you like them? What do you get out of them? What's the benefit?
I've watched people play slot machines. They sit there and pump money into the machine for no real benefit to themselves. Why are video games any different to that?
I get fun out of them. I don't mean to sound snide, but do you really not understand why people play video games? I derive fun from many places, like hiking, reading, movies, music, and video games. Do you not derive fun from your hobbies?
A video game allows you to develop your skills and use your brain in a complex way (especially true of competitive multiplayer games). A slot machine is played by mindlessly pulling a lever.
To be equally reductive, how is any hobby more than playing a slot machine? It’s just pulling a dopamine lever.
I do not believe a hobby needs to yield social value. I believe it is sufficient to derive enjoyment from the activity itself. You don’t need to personally enjoy my hobbies, just as I don’t imagine I would enjoy yours.
I'd say it's less reductive and more the objective reality.
> I do not believe a hobby needs to yield social value
I didn't say anything about social value. I'm talking about value to you individually.
I don't think you've answered that question. I don't see there is any value. I think you're pushing buttons to make the blinking lights blink differently, just like a slot machine.
Any activity you enjoy is enjoyed because it produces a dopamine release (for someone who enjoys it).
People who enjoy reading get the same dopamine reaction from that as people who enjoy video games. Or slot machines.
The difference with slot machines is that the purpose of them is solely to tie that dopamine release to giving away money predicated on deception (specifically, both by not disclosing actual odds, and by lying about them).
A slot game that requires no money to play isn't a problem, because it's not tricking old people into giving away their pensions.
> to tie that dopamine release to giving away money predicated on deception (specifically, both by not disclosing actual odds, and by lying about them)
So just like loot boxes in video games.
> A slot game that requires no money to play isn't a problem
So similarly you should only be playing opensource and freeware video games that aren't designed to extract money from you.
Which is why people have specific problems with loot boxes, yes. But most video games don't have loot boxes.
> So similarly you should only be playing opensource and freeware video games that aren't designed to extract money from you.
"Paying to purchase a game", and "paying to wager money on or in a game" are 2 different things.
I'd also have no issue with someone buying an actual slot machine to sit in their house, so they put in money but also keep the money they put in. But people don't do that because they're not playing for the gameplay, they're playing for the gamble.
True story: I know a woman who built a relationship with her tween nephew on the other side of the world mainly by playing Fortnite with him ever week for two years - all for free because she never bought a skin.
downsplat · · focus · HN ↗
Gareth321 · · focus · HN ↗
Unfortunately this is an ideological hill that many Linux devs are willing to die on, so we're at an impasse. Valve claimed to be working on a solution, and if there is any company which can negotiate an accord, it's them.
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
But why? They're just video games. Why are they important, especially when a lot of them are designed to be addictive.
A lot of people love smoking but that's not important either and it's better to give it up.
JimmyBiscuit · · focus · HN ↗
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
When your grandkids ask you what you did with your finite time, is "I pwned noobs" the answer you want to give?
JimmyBiscuit · · focus · HN ↗
Sure, let me just quickly hop on a plane to australia to meet with some. I assume youre paying?
> When your grandkids ask you what you did with your finite time, is "I pwned noobs" the answer you want to give?
Yes? What kind of question is that? Youre just gonna start talking about the value you created for shareholders or your business?
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
The question is what value are video games. The answer seems to be "not much".
They look much more like addictive distractions than anything valuable.
alt227 · · focus · HN ↗
ang_cire · · focus · HN ↗
Ultimately, everyone spends their time on what they enjoy; there's no award when you die for doing more x than y while you were alive.
I enjoy playing games, gardening, and riding motorcycles. My cousin enjoys socializing at bars, playing games, and doing woodwork.
Is one of our hobby sets more legitimate than the other's?
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
How are video games a hobby? Is playing slot machines also a hobby?
What's the difference between video games and slot machines? They look real similar to me.
JimmyBiscuit · · focus · HN ↗
ang_cire · · focus · HN ↗
As others have said, why didn't you list out your hobbies (as I did mine), so we can understand exactly what recreational activities you think constitute "valid" hobbies? That will also make it easier for me to explain the difference between video games and slot machines to you.
rbits · · focus · HN ↗
[1] <a href="https://store.steampowered.com/app/716490/EXAPUNKS/" rel="nofollow">https://store.steampowered.com/app/716490/EXAPUNKS/
[2] <a href="https://store.steampowered.com/app/1989270/Slay_the_Princess__The_Pristine_Cut/" rel="nofollow">https://store.steampowered.com/app/1989270/Slay_the_Princess...
N_Lens · · focus · HN ↗
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
Video games don't even appear to be productive of good discussion.
genshii · · focus · HN ↗
Why are you trying so hard to "prove" that someone's hobby is a waste of time?
N_Lens · · focus · HN ↗
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
That's the question. What is the reason?
People also play slot machines. Are slot machines fulfilling?
tzs · · focus · HN ↗
You are being ridiculous. First, unless the person was a professional gamer they would probably answer with the time they spend at work and time time they spend raising their family. But let's assume the grandkids specifically asked what they did for entertainment.
The answer would then be something like "I got together with my friends and we played the popular online games together". They would probably also mention any other things they did a lot of entertainment, too.
account42 · · focus · HN ↗
Gracana · · focus · HN ↗
Gareth321 · · focus · HN ↗
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
I've watched people play slot machines. They sit there and pump money into the machine for no real benefit to themselves. Why are video games any different to that?
Gareth321 · · focus · HN ↗
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
alt227 · · focus · HN ↗
mrob · · focus · HN ↗
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
What skills? I don't think there's anything complex about button mashing to make blinking lights blink differently.
mrob · · focus · HN ↗
Gareth321 · · focus · HN ↗
I do not believe a hobby needs to yield social value. I believe it is sufficient to derive enjoyment from the activity itself. You don’t need to personally enjoy my hobbies, just as I don’t imagine I would enjoy yours.
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
I'd say it's less reductive and more the objective reality.
> I do not believe a hobby needs to yield social value
I didn't say anything about social value. I'm talking about value to you individually.
I don't think you've answered that question. I don't see there is any value. I think you're pushing buttons to make the blinking lights blink differently, just like a slot machine.
N_Lens · · focus · HN ↗
ang_cire · · focus · HN ↗
People who enjoy reading get the same dopamine reaction from that as people who enjoy video games. Or slot machines.
The difference with slot machines is that the purpose of them is solely to tie that dopamine release to giving away money predicated on deception (specifically, both by not disclosing actual odds, and by lying about them).
A slot game that requires no money to play isn't a problem, because it's not tricking old people into giving away their pensions.
cisc · · focus · HN ↗
So just like loot boxes in video games.
> A slot game that requires no money to play isn't a problem
So similarly you should only be playing opensource and freeware video games that aren't designed to extract money from you.
ang_cire · · focus · HN ↗
> So similarly you should only be playing opensource and freeware video games that aren't designed to extract money from you.
"Paying to purchase a game", and "paying to wager money on or in a game" are 2 different things.
I'd also have no issue with someone buying an actual slot machine to sit in their house, so they put in money but also keep the money they put in. But people don't do that because they're not playing for the gameplay, they're playing for the gamble.
anonthrownaway · · focus · HN ↗
True story: I know a woman who built a relationship with her tween nephew on the other side of the world mainly by playing Fortnite with him ever week for two years - all for free because she never bought a skin.