Thread

1. dcow · 1789828104 · focus · HN ↗

   I can understand why the author feels bitter but it still feels juvenile to me. Certainly both Jev and Laya are based on the research of countless prior papers and academics. Diogo decided to build a product out of the concept. The author didn't. Publishing research papers and model weights is probably part of the problem--it feels academic. If you look at the author's profile they focus on applying AI to healthcare. Not selling general AI type safety to AI pilled companies and devs. There's a big difference there. Whether that's good or bad you can argue all day. But for the author to expect otherwise is pretty weird. I do applaud them for not stewing too much on it and trying to do something about it, though.

   1. operaopera · 1789828352 · focus · HN ↗

      I believe his qualms were with the "hype" in Jev's announcement: specifically calling this kind of model a breakthrough, without crediting previous art, and keeping everything closed source.

      1. prodigycorp · 1789828521 · focus · HN ↗

         And how is laya previous art? The project was vibecoded and posted yesterday.

         <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;NandhaKishorM&#x2F;laya&#x2F;commits&#x2F;main&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;NandhaKishorM&#x2F;laya&#x2F;commits&#x2F;main&#x2F;

         <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;huggingface.co&#x2F;convaiinnovations&#x2F;laya&#x2F;commits&#x2F;main" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;huggingface.co&#x2F;convaiinnovations&#x2F;laya&#x2F;commits&#x2F;main

         1. nandakishor_ml · 1789828748 · focus · HN ↗

            The paper is one year old. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;2510.01237" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arxiv.org&#x2F;abs&#x2F;2510.01237 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pypi.org&#x2F;project&#x2F;hallunox&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pypi.org&#x2F;project&#x2F;hallunox&#x2F;

            1. prodigycorp · 1789829155 · focus · HN ↗

               Excuse me, but calibrating language models to accurately reflect probabilities did not start with you.

               1. nandakishor_ml · 1789829889 · focus · HN ↗

                  I didn&#x27;t claimed it bro it was first. Just shared the findings here.

                  1. prodigycorp · 1789830550 · focus · HN ↗

                     [dead]

                     1. nandakishor_ml · 1789831288 · focus · HN ↗

                        just not these jev guys not opensourcing their work

                        1. verdverm · 1789834890 · focus · HN ↗

                           You used a number of not open source projects in your paper, are you equally upset with them for this reason?
            2. dcow · 1789829787 · focus · HN ↗

               [dead]

               1. jeremyjh · 1789831861 · focus · HN ↗

                  Generally they do credit the papers and&#x2F;or people who developed the theory behind their product.
               2. charcircuit · 1789831957 · focus · HN ↗

                  Researchers definitely do get paid for research. That Google company you mention funds research which can be integrated into their products.

                  1. Matticus_Rex · 1789832828 · focus · HN ↗

                     Sure, researchers get paid when they either do the research under contract or productize the research and sell it themselves. But they don&#x27;t usually do the latter because that&#x27;s quite difficult.

                     1. verdverm · 1789834755 · focus · HN ↗

                        Are you grouping academic research funded by grants under the contract category?

                        To me, there is a meaningful difference and I&#x27;d add a third category, but I can also see the contract angle

               3. potterpie · 1789835360 · focus · HN ↗

                  Ideas are cheap. But the ideas are cheap coming from anyone. The reason some ideas (like JEV&#x27;s) are taking up our attention (as opposed to Laya&#x27;s) is not because of their execution ability, but because venture funding now is subbing filling in for execution ability. I do understand your argument to this would be - &quot;welcome to the world!&quot; or &quot;that&#x27;s just how the world works&quot; - but that does not mean we do not recognize the ideas that came well before &quot;venture funding made it happen&quot;.

                  I&#x27;d like to remind us all that there is a reason Joseph Liouville took the time to painstakingly review Galois’s chaotic manuscripts to credit him. It matters who did what before everyone else - if you do want to say &quot;ideas are cheap&quot; - we&#x27;d need to control for other variables before drawing conclusions.

                  1. dcow · 1789928232 · focus · HN ↗

                     I think we just have different definitions of execution. Getting VC funding and spending two years honing and SaaSifying an idea then dropping it with a hype train (yes paid for by VC funding) is certainly very different execution than someone writing a paper and publishing model weights on huggingface then vibe coding a “product” around it a year later the day after Jev is announced and the hype proves defensible and the idea is similar.

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