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Blindsight (Watts Novel)

90 points · 99 comments · mooreds

  1. sxp · · focus · HN ↗
    This is one of my favorite books and it&#x27;s fun to read for anyone interested in the AI consciousness debate. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hpmorpodcast.com&#x2F;blindsided-00-announcement&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hpmorpodcast.com&#x2F;blindsided-00-announcement&#x2F; is a podcast that read the book last year. And <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blindsight.space&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blindsight.space&#x2F; is a Watts&#x27; approved website that has a short film&#x2F;movie trailer for the book.
    1. zetsurin · · focus · HN ↗
      Second book echopraxia is good too
      1. niek_pas · · focus · HN ↗
        Blindsight is probably my favorite novel, and I liked echopraxia fine but it was definitely of a different class to me. The worst parts of blindsight are Watts&#x27; descriptives (where is everyone right know? What does this area look like? What actions are currently happening?) and Echopraxia suffers from this even more than Blindsight already did.
      2. BLKNSLVR · · focus · HN ↗
        I loved Blindsight, but Echopraxia lost me at numerous points. I&#x27;ll need to go back and re-read.
    2. phasefactor · · focus · HN ↗
      And the authors blog&#x2F;website is: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rifters.com&#x2F;crawl&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rifters.com&#x2F;crawl&#x2F;
    3. bobbiechen · · focus · HN ↗
      Imo Greg Egan&#x27;s Permutation City is a far more interesting exploration of consciousness.
      1. Vetch · · focus · HN ↗
        Permutation City is not &quot;far more interesting&quot;, it is a complementary exploration of consciousness and the nature of reality. Both are excellent (also both very relevant i-pumps). Permanence by Karl Schroeder is another really good complementary exploration of the idea of consciousness as transitory, a symptom of not being good at the thing that is being consciously cogitated. A cat is so good at being a cat, it does not need to waste resources on clumsy meta-aware calculations on how to cat.
      2. lynx97 · · focus · HN ↗
        In general, I can recommend every book by Greg Egan. Especially incandescence, which really struck me as a great piece of hard sci-fi.
        1. teekert · · focus · HN ↗
          100%, also: Diaspora.
    4. jvanderbot · · focus · HN ↗
      The marginal &#x2F; ancillary discussion of the usefulness of people in a post GAI world was really interesting. The best part of this discussion was that the protagonists entire job is to translate ideas that are too hard to understand into a tangible&#x2F;actionalbe &quot;surface area&quot;. Essentially - a policy-maker interface that treats superintelligence as a &quot;black box&quot;.

      I have an excerpt of the book explaining this here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jodavaho.io&#x2F;posts&#x2F;books-blindsight.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jodavaho.io&#x2F;posts&#x2F;books-blindsight.html

      The discussion about non-conscious intelligence was less so (I see ants every day!). But this is a new idea dense book to say the least - if you love worldbuilding, please pick it up.

    5. SigmundA · · focus · HN ↗
      I read Blindsight long before modern LLM AI came about and at the time I thought the aliens being intelligent without being conscious was fascinating and gave me a different perspective that those things could be separated but it didn&#x27;t have and direct application.

      Learning how modern AI&#x27;s respond immediately made me think about how Rorschach was communicating with the crew and how current LLM AI&#x27;s might be considered intelligent while not conscious.

      <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Blindsight_(Watts_novel)#Consciousness" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Blindsight_(Watts_novel)#Consc...

      1. throw310822 · · focus · HN ↗
        How do you even know that LLMs are not conscious?

        I&#x27;ve just skimmed the Wikipedia entry you linked:

          &quot;Our cousins lie about the family tree,&quot; Sascha replied, &quot;with nieces and nephews and Neanderthals. We do not like annoying cousins.&quot;
        &quot;Sascha muted the channel and gave us a look that said Could it be any more obvious? &quot;It couldn&#x27;t have parsed that. There were three linguistic ambiguities in there. It just ignored them.&quot;

        So it turns out I&#x27;m not conscious either and incapable of semantic understanding, because I&#x27;ve ignored the ambiguities too. Though note that parsing ambiguous sentences used to be exactly what pre-LLM AIs could not do, and what we thought of as requiring real understanding.

        1. adastra22 · · focus · HN ↗
          They can’t, because consciousness is ill defined. It means something different to every person that engages in this debate.
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