Thread

1. msdz · 1790961668 · focus · HN ↗

   Regardless of what one personally thinks about the ICC, this isn’t a good look for neither the US nor Europe.

   For the U.S., because sanctioning an “unpleasant”, but in essence harmless individual (geopolitically speaking) is ridiculous. Falling victim to de-banking alone can really ruin one’s life.

   And for the EU, because it once again showcases the dependence on U.S. systems for just about anything tech-related in everyday life and work.

   1. nostrademons · 1790963177 · focus · HN ↗

      It undermines the idea of the U.S. as a neutral arbiter for law, order, and free commerce. That may always have been a fiction, but it's a very useful fiction because it underpins U.S. soft power. It's much easier to get consent for being the world hegemon when you act like a benevolent, disinterested hegemon. Once you start becoming a participant - and overriding other institutions that are ostensibly providing neutral, impartial justice just because their decisions are inconvenient for you - you are essentially placing yourself below them and undermining your own legitimacy.

      Neutrality and objectivity may be a fiction, but it's one of the most useful fictions that have been invented in the last 500 years.

      1. jfengel · 1790963945 · focus · HN ↗

         America has apparently decided that the fiction is no longer useful. At least not to us.

         I can't say I'm happy about that, but it's a fact now. We cannot put that genie back in the bottle. Even a change of leadership soon will not alter the realization that it can change back on a moment's notice.

         So... we will find out.

         1. laimewhisps · 1790964089 · focus · HN ↗

            I think we will come to realize that liberalism died in Gaza. It exposed all of the hypocrisy that had always been there, it was just hidden under a mask of propaganda. Exposure to the raw events on social media allowed people to see the difference between what was happening and what we were being told. The mask came off and it's not going back on.

            1. mschuster91 · 1790967261 · focus · HN ↗

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               1. g8oz · 1790968019 · focus · HN ↗

                  Did the Palestinian children sniped in the head and chest have it coming as well?

                  1. gamblor956 · 1790968416 · focus · HN ↗

                     Did the 500+ teenagers and early-20-something women at the music festival Hamas stormed deserve to be raped, tortured, and murdered?

                     1. lossolo · 1790970886 · focus · HN ↗

                        What's your point? Are you saying that if you kill my kids then I can kill you, then kill your kids, your wife, your parents, grandparents, their brothers and sisters and their kids? And that's ok and I'm better than you? meaning I'm good and you are evil? or what are you arguing?

                        1. gamblor956 · 1790976101 · focus · HN ↗

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                           1. laimewhisps · 1790976372 · focus · HN ↗

                              What are you talking about? Israel spent decades ethnically cleansing Palestinians and they're still doing it, at scale. They had already murdered orders of magnitude more Palestinians than Israelis killed by the IDF and Hamas combined on Oct 7th.

                              1. gamblor956 · 1791046166 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Ah, so for you this was never really about what's happening right now. This is about the "decades" that Israel has been "ethnically cleansing" a group of people that have been doing their best to wipe out Israel since its formation.

                                 The antisemites have been making this argument for decades. It's a popular meme on 8chan and the Daily Stormer. The only problem with the claim is that Israel's military actions against Palestine were restrained until Oct 7th. But then again, murdering 1000+ people in cold blood tends to make the survivors do irrational things to the attackers.

                                 Maybe Palestine should refrain from violent activity for a period of a year, which is longer than either Hamas or the PLO have ever managed to go without launching terrorist attacks against Israel, and we can talk about "peace" in the Middle East.

                                 1. laimewhisps · 1791048013 · focus · HN ↗

                                    Israel was created through ethnic cleansing, this is all very well documented: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nakba" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Nakba

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