Is Apple taking steps to purposefully blocking open stuff, or are they just pointedly ignoring it and continuing to develop new hardware? I am genuinely asking, I don't know myself.
edit: speaking mostly about macOS here, mobile OSes are much more locked down
Give it up. People have been predicting this for 15 years.
You can’t have a development machine locked down like iOS. As long as the Mac is the development machine at apple it will need to be able to run arbitrary code.
What support? Asahi had to fight to exist, especially early on when they essentially had to reimplement much of the graphics pipeline. And now its in mainline linux - short of a complete hostile lockdown of the bootloader, it’s not like they support other OS’s very much as is.
Asahi appears to be dead. It wont even boot on anything apple released in the past 2 years.
Sure, their M1-M3 support is okay (as long as you're fine with no hibernate or sleep support, so have to plug in the laptop or risk losing all your open stuff), and it was a lot of work by lots of volunteers... But at this point it's starting to look more like a retrocomputing project. As time ticks on, it'll become less and less viable using an ancient laptop, especially if local AI becomes commonplace.
Wtf do you mean? They just enabled M3 in the official installer and they're working on M4 bringup too. Keep in mind it took them like 16 months to even support M1 at first. Then they supported M2 within a few months, then M3 threw in a wrench that they're still working on, but there is no evidence of death at all, just a lot of work left to do.
M4 has no support and was released in May 2024, over 2 years ago, and looks at least a year from usability - doesn't yet boot. M5 also has no support. M6 also has no support.
I did say they're working on M4 bringup, which means it doesn't boot yet, yes. I don't see how that means they're "dead" though. Or that they'll never catch up ever. In fact, the very recent progress in this area suggests the exact opposite.
For desktops and laptops, the latter. But for phones and tablets they do not want user control. And even where they do allow it, even a tiny effort in hardware documentation that would make it so much easier never happens. So it's quite hostile overall.
I had a bad experience with my Lenovo laptop. It had a firmware issue that caused the trackpad to become unresponsive after suspend and Lenovo never fixed it.
Made the laptop miserable to use, so I went for a MacBook instead which wouldn't have such an obvious issue be unfixed because Apple has so few SKUs to support.
Also went for it in part because I do not like Windows and macOS typically would save me when Linux support was lacking. Just had to hope for a quick port of Asahi Linux to become (unfortunately didn't happen for my M3, but thankfully it's been progressing recently).
The point is about how it was produced in first place, having taken six years to get a proper replacement, despite the supposed quality of premium Apple products.
Then there is the Antennagate on iPhone, the buggy OS releases, and plenty other examples that I can refer from what is totally unacceptable given the price point of their products.
Others aren't better, but at least they don't pretend otherwise.
Apple is held to a higher standard because they have historically reached it on a semi-regular basis. Enough that people expect it. Enough that people get personally offended whenever they fall short.
There are enough examples since Apple I, where they historical failed to do so, so much of them, that they are only around because NeXT "acquired" them, and the old founder came back into the bridge with enough time to steer the ship away from the iceberg.
The quality cult is even worse among those that never experienced old Apple.
They get so personally offended that they renew hardware almost yearly, regardless of the bugs and software issues.
For what it's worth, my first Apple was a IIe, followed by a 512K Macintosh, and I still have a first-edition NeXTWorld magazine I bought at the time.
The definition of quality in the Apple world isn't quite the same as in the nerd world, much as an Alfa Romeo fan and a Toyota fan may mean different things by quality. Joy and reliability both matter, and it's very easy for people who value them differently to end up talking past each other.
Yeah, the distortion field exists for a reason, given Liquid Glass, Swift UI issues, Tahoe and Golden Gate bugs, it is hard to have joy when they prevent work on premium hardware.
The Mac went through an OS dark ages in the 1990s.
It went through a silicon dark ages in the 2000s.
It went through a hardware dark ages in the 2010s.
It seems to be going through a user layer software dark ages in the 2020s. And it's especially frustrating because Apple is on an absolute tear with their OS, silicon and hardware right now. They've never made a better hardware product and, love it or hate it, the core OS is pretty damn solid. It's the shit they're piling into the distro—and the shit they're forcing developers to deal with—which sucks balls.
As for joy: It's hard to have joy in an Alfa Romeo that has unsolvable electrical gremlins and the engine mounts are rusted away. Except people do. It's hard to have joy in a Toyota when all driving feel is engineered out of it. Except people do.
That is a good point, but not exactly what I meant.
When I was picking out that Lenovo laptop, there were dozens of different laptops just from Lenovo alone with lots of hardware variety. Then consider all the different manufacturers I could have also chosen from.
With that much hardware, it's hard to find comprehensive reviews matching the exact laptop I was looking at. And from the few reviews I did find, none of them mentioned that issue.
A model of non-Apple laptop could have serious issues, but since it's not Apple, it wouldn't have anywhere near the same media presence an Apple laptop would. With their few SKUs and popularity, the issues are visible. I did not need to follow Macs closely to know about the butterfly keyboard issues, overheating issues, etc. I wouldn't have purchased a Mac back then given those issues.
But Apple got their stuff together and fixed that. And when I was considering the M3, there were no hints of any hardware issues from the reviews I saw and discourse I read online. And thankfully that matches my experience, it's the most robust and "it just works" laptop I've used.
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edit: speaking mostly about macOS here, mobile OSes are much more locked down
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londons_explore · · focus · HN ↗
It was only really open to ease the transition between intel and arm.
musictubes · · focus · HN ↗
You can’t have a development machine locked down like iOS. As long as the Mac is the development machine at apple it will need to be able to run arbitrary code.
londons_explore · · focus · HN ↗
But they'll remove support for other OS's
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londons_explore · · focus · HN ↗
Sure, their M1-M3 support is okay (as long as you're fine with no hibernate or sleep support, so have to plug in the laptop or risk losing all your open stuff), and it was a lot of work by lots of volunteers... But at this point it's starting to look more like a retrocomputing project. As time ticks on, it'll become less and less viable using an ancient laptop, especially if local AI becomes commonplace.
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<a href="https://support.apple.com/guide/security/boot-process-secac71d5623/web" rel="nofollow">https://support.apple.com/guide/security/boot-process-secac7...
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novafunc · · focus · HN ↗
Made the laptop miserable to use, so I went for a MacBook instead which wouldn't have such an obvious issue be unfixed because Apple has so few SKUs to support.
Also went for it in part because I do not like Windows and macOS typically would save me when Linux support was lacking. Just had to hope for a quick port of Asahi Linux to become (unfortunately didn't happen for my M3, but thankfully it's been progressing recently).
pjmlp · · focus · HN ↗
cavoirom · · focus · HN ↗
pjmlp · · focus · HN ↗
Then there is the Antennagate on iPhone, the buggy OS releases, and plenty other examples that I can refer from what is totally unacceptable given the price point of their products.
Others aren't better, but at least they don't pretend otherwise.
simondotau · · focus · HN ↗
pjmlp · · focus · HN ↗
The quality cult is even worse among those that never experienced old Apple.
They get so personally offended that they renew hardware almost yearly, regardless of the bugs and software issues.
simondotau · · focus · HN ↗
The definition of quality in the Apple world isn't quite the same as in the nerd world, much as an Alfa Romeo fan and a Toyota fan may mean different things by quality. Joy and reliability both matter, and it's very easy for people who value them differently to end up talking past each other.
pjmlp · · focus · HN ↗
simondotau · · focus · HN ↗
It went through a silicon dark ages in the 2000s.
It went through a hardware dark ages in the 2010s.
It seems to be going through a user layer software dark ages in the 2020s. And it's especially frustrating because Apple is on an absolute tear with their OS, silicon and hardware right now. They've never made a better hardware product and, love it or hate it, the core OS is pretty damn solid. It's the shit they're piling into the distro—and the shit they're forcing developers to deal with—which sucks balls.
As for joy: It's hard to have joy in an Alfa Romeo that has unsolvable electrical gremlins and the engine mounts are rusted away. Except people do. It's hard to have joy in a Toyota when all driving feel is engineered out of it. Except people do.
novafunc · · focus · HN ↗
When I was picking out that Lenovo laptop, there were dozens of different laptops just from Lenovo alone with lots of hardware variety. Then consider all the different manufacturers I could have also chosen from.
With that much hardware, it's hard to find comprehensive reviews matching the exact laptop I was looking at. And from the few reviews I did find, none of them mentioned that issue.
A model of non-Apple laptop could have serious issues, but since it's not Apple, it wouldn't have anywhere near the same media presence an Apple laptop would. With their few SKUs and popularity, the issues are visible. I did not need to follow Macs closely to know about the butterfly keyboard issues, overheating issues, etc. I wouldn't have purchased a Mac back then given those issues.
But Apple got their stuff together and fixed that. And when I was considering the M3, there were no hints of any hardware issues from the reviews I saw and discourse I read online. And thankfully that matches my experience, it's the most robust and "it just works" laptop I've used.
cavoirom · · focus · HN ↗
code_duck · · focus · HN ↗