Thread

1. TrackerFF · 1790856519 · focus · HN ↗

   Yeah, people are unfortunately not informed on just how much power border agents wield. Not only in the US, but in many (most I'd believe) other countries, too. I've worked on cases (intel side) where the law-enforcement side would just wait for the surveillance objects to cross the border, as that's where they could do most data collection with the least hassle.

   If for whatever reason you think you're being investigated or surveilled (who knows for what these days, could be enough to just associate with the various protest groups / orgs), you can just assume that the border will be where they'll try to clone / download your data (phones, laptops, whatever)

   1. jwr · 1790859098 · focus · HN ↗

      I'm lucky to live in a country (Poland) where border agents can either let you in, arrest you if there is an arrest warrant, or detain but only with a lawful basis for detention (as in, you are posing a threat to others) and detention may be used only when other measures have proved pointless or ineffective.

      This makes returning to the country nice and pleasant. The border agents never ask you creepy questions like: Where are you going? Where will you be staying? What do you intend to do? (it's what US border agents ask their citizens). They just say hi and let you in.

      1. keiferski · 1790859370 · focus · HN ↗

         Poland border agents do ask why you're visiting. Don't know where you're getting that info.

         1. jwr · 1790863467 · focus · HN ↗

            My point was that Polish citizens do not get asked. This is different for Americans. US citizens entering their own country have to answer these bizarre and sometimes creepy questions.

            1. stronglikedan · 1790868111 · focus · HN ↗

               I don't understand why they would even bother asking a US citizen who is returning home these questions: Where are you going? Where will you be staying? What do you intend to do?

               Wouldn't everyone just answer, "home", "home", and "go home"? What would even be the point?

               1. someonebaggy · 1790872237 · focus · HN ↗

                  Even though the law says they have to let you in eventually, it doesn't say they can't harass you just in case you fall for it. They can also offer you a reward like less harassment if you just comply.

                  1. mrguyorama · 1790878377 · focus · HN ↗

                     The law also says that a cop can't arrest you for no reason but every lawyer will tell you that only means you get a check after the court battle, not that you won't get arrested.

                     "They have to let you in" means that they don't let you in and you might be able to get a payout in court.

                     Nobody at the border has the job of "Force the border agent to let in anyone who is an actual American because they have that right", and nobody holds a gun to the border agent's head if he does not let you in.

                     1. 1718627440 · 1790925727 · focus · HN ↗

                        A society is fundamentally broken if people need to get held a gun to their head, to make them do, what the society has commonly decided they should do. That simply doesn't scale. You might be able to do that for a few fallen individuals, but not for load bearing ones.

                        1. icantevenhold · 1790938159 · focus · HN ↗

                           Every society - like any other sufficiently complex system - is operating in a constant state of brokenness. Societies are dynamic, with components (organizational, human, technical) failing and being replaced continuously.

                           1. someonebaggy · 1790940909 · focus · HN ↗

                              All are broken, some are more broken than others.
                           2. 1718627440 · 1790943353 · focus · HN ↗

                              Broken in the sense of not sustainable, faulty in principle, might lead to further demise, or failure. Not as in there are issues, not everything is optimal.

                              1. icantevenhold · 1791025053 · focus · HN ↗

                                 On a long enough timeline nothing is sustainable; it just depends on when it breaks down. I think society can go on like this for a long long time

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.