Thread

Returning from vacation? The government can search your phone without a warrant

411 points · 378 comments · rbanffy

Tangurena2 · 1790856629 · focus · HN ↗
> “In [Fiscal Year] 2025, out of the over 419 million travelers CBP processed at ports of entry, CBP only searched the electronic devices of 55,318 international travelers,” the agency wrote, or 0.0013%.
The harassment is targeted at critics & opponents of the current regime. The message is very clear: Be afraid of us. Be very afraid
There are 33 days remaining until election day. Vote out all the incumbents.
1. petcat · 1790857424 · focus · HN ↗
  I will be curious to see statistics from past years. I'm wondering if this is a new thing. I'm pretty sure US customs and border patrol have always had this power. I think basically every country exercises this power
  1. anal_reactor · 1790857738 · focus · HN ↗
    The core issue is that on one hand, police needs power to protect the citizens, but at the same time the power might corrupt them.
    echelon · 1790858323 · focus · HN ↗
    This is why state powers need judicial oversight.
    There are some instances where powers need to be exercised in a hurry, but there should always be proper reporting and a paper trail, with stiff reprimanded for misuse or abuse of the system. Accidents can happen, but they should be infrequent and should follow protocol.
    It would be great if citizens had more direct involvement in these cases too. I don't see why egregious abuses shouldn't be tried by jury.
    Police and intelligence agency employees should be held to a higher standard than civilians (like military personnel are subject to UCMJ), and breeches of protocols should lead to harsher punishments imposed upon them. It would be fine to pay them more if it required more training and accountability.
    someonebaggy · 1790860133 · focus · HN ↗
    In most of Europe, police carry guns. But they are afraid to fire those guns, because there will be a disciplinary process and they are likely to lose their job or go to jail if they can't show there was no other alternative. But if there is a situation where it is necessary to fire the gun, it will be.
    echelon · 1790861417 · focus · HN ↗
    In the US, anyone can own a gun. Police have to perform a different risk calculus than in Europe.
    Police officers are 30x more likely to be murdered in the US South than in, say, Germany.
    catlikesshrimp · 1790861668 · focus · HN ↗
    You just changed 45x to 30x. What is the source?
    echelon · 1790861913 · focus · HN ↗
    45x included accidents. I'll compile the citations, one moment.
    > "From 2014 through 2023, the South region had the most line-of-duty deaths yearly compared to other regions. There was a 38% decrease in line-of-duty deaths in the region in 2023 (20 deaths) compared to 2022 (32 deaths). Last year marked the lowest number of line-of-duty deaths in the South since 2015 (19 deaths)."
    <a href="https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-officers-killed-and-assaulted-in-the-line-of-duty-2023-special-report-and-law-enforcement-employee-counts" rel="nofollow">https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/fbi-releases-officer...
    Felonious Deaths vs Accidental Deaths
    <a href="https://le.fbi.gov/cjis-division/cjis-link/statistics-on-law-enforcement-officer-deaths-in-the-line-of-duty-from-january-through-september-2024" rel="nofollow">https://le.fbi.gov/cjis-division/cjis-link/statistics-on-law...
    > "A look at police crime statistics shows that fatal attacks on police officers are relatively rare. While violent acts against police officers are increasing overall—last year the statistics recorded 38,960 cases, a rise of 0.8 percent—no more than two police officers have been killed in the line of duty in any year since 2011." (Translated)
    <a href="https://www.bazonline.ch/die-schiessen-369707652687" rel="nofollow">https://www.bazonline.ch/die-schiessen-369707652687
    greedo · 1790864101 · focus · HN ↗
    Your comparison to Germany with "30x" the risk is pointless when less than two are murdered per year. Measure that against police misconduct that results in bodily harm/death per year.
    watwut · 1790865339 · focus · HN ↗
    Most line-of-duty deaths are caused by traffic accidents. Cops spend a lot of time on the streets, they are more likely to by hit by a car then shot.
    Also, right to have a gun should involve right to not be shot by a cop just because you own a gun.
    mc32 · 1790862761 · focus · HN ↗
    Also in Europe more cops have K-9s and aren’t afraid to sick them on suspects.
    everforward · 1790866306 · focus · HN ↗
    They don’t get tried in part because of Qualified Immunity (which has some rationality but I think we’ve taken it much too far), and in part because the structure of the system doesn’t incentivize it.
    The people who would charge the officers are the same people who rely on the police to provide evidence. Both groups work closely together. Malfeasance by police typically provides the prosecution with evidence they want or people to charge. There’s no incentive other than morality to charge them, and a lot of reasons to find a way to rationalize it as untrue, or necessary, or whatever.
    pstuart · 1790859734 · focus · HN ↗
    > police needs power to protect the citizens
    Those terms need to be clearly defined. SCOTUS has declared that the police actually have no duty to protect and to serve the people.
    And with an overwhelming amount of evidence, the police operate with effectively no accountability and repeated demonstrate that they abuse their powers freely.
    So yes, laws without teeth are pointless but the state's monopoly on violence should only be granted when it can be demonstrated to not be abused.
    pessimizer · 1790868660 · focus · HN ↗
    This is not the issue. The police are tools.
    The question is whether the people who control the police are subject to democratic processes. They are not. We live in an oligarchy whose control over the government is exercised through two small private clubs who have written themselves into the law. To which it has been decided that infinite money can be donated, that money given without explicit quid pro quo is simply a gift, and that money given after something has been done is simply a "gratuity."*
    It's an evil country, and the most lucrative middle-class profession is to generate daily the vocabulary to justify its evil acts.
    I can tell you who doesn't ever get searched at the border. In fact, I bet you could tell me. Peter Thiel doesn't get searched at the border. Kamala Harris doesn't get searched at the border. Jeffrey Epstein never got searched at the border. Tom Cruise doesn't get searched at the border.
    [*] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snyder_v._United_States
    usrbinbash · 1790869157 · focus · HN ↗
    That would be a fine argument, if anyone had proof that invasive search practices actually made peoples lifes noticeably safer.
    And yet, almost every single time such practices are implemented, nothing about actual safety changes...but a whole lot about surveillance does.
    "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security will lose both.
    -- Benajmin Franklin, paraphrased
    anal_reactor · 1790923588 · focus · HN ↗
    > That would be a fine argument, if anyone had proof that invasive search practices actually made peoples lifes noticeably safer.
    El Salvador. Case closed.
    "Mama! Poo-poo!"
    — Adolf Hitler, as a toddler

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