Thread

DraftKings is using AI to behaviorally target chronic gamblers

570 points · 432 comments · paimapi

tedivm · 1790700196 · focus · HN ↗
ProPublica had one of their reports work with gambling addition experts to see how DraftKings would respond to someone presenting signs of a gambling problem. It's a hell of a read, and makes it clear that this company is full of people with absolutely no ethics whatsoever.
<a href="https://www.propublica.org/article/draftkings-sports-gambling-problem-vip-fanduel" rel="nofollow">https://www.propublica.org/article/draftkings-sports-gamblin...
1. jimbo808 · 1790701282 · focus · HN ↗
  > this company is full of people with absolutely no ethics whatsoever
  I believe this applies to any company which sells an inherently harmful, predatory, and addictive product or service
  1. SoftTalker · 1790702655 · focus · HN ↗
    Hope you're including all the state governments and their lotteries in this assessment.
    DonaldPShimoda · 1790702833 · focus · HN ↗
    At least those often fund things like state education so, over time, the pool of victims is maybe lessened by the success of the program? Maybe?
    (I am not defending state lotteries, but I do think there's some distinction to be made between "we actively exploit people to maximize our profits for our own sakes" and "we regulate the passive exploitation of people to supplement taxes in a regressive manner." Or something. I dunno, maybe somebody has more elaborate thoughts on this to share.)
    DANmode · 1790703295 · focus · HN ↗
    > At least those often fund things like state education so, over time, the pool of victims is maybe lessened by the success of the program? Maybe?
    You have some numbers to check.
    (“Elaborate thoughts” aren’t needed here - are more people spending less on the lottery? where does each state spend the money?)
    scottLobster · 1790703622 · focus · HN ↗
    See nature preserves that are funded by regulated big game hunting of the preserved nature.
    It's a fun moral question. At what point do you give up trying to make someone/a population healthier and say "well if you're going to be this way, we might as well get some use out of you"?
    gosub100 · 1790704774 · focus · HN ↗
    And the legal option makes it less likely that organized crime will jump in to offer the service.
    (To me, it seems) The same people who screamed to legalize weed a few years ago are vehemently against alcohol and gambling.
    cwnyth · 1790703969 · focus · HN ↗
    In many places where gambling is banned, there is still gambling. And in places where it's legalized, it can (in theory) be effectively regulated (if there's political will, which is difficult to muster sometimes). And say what you will about lotteries, but it's far easier to blow your life savings at casinos and with sports betting than buying a bunch of lottery tickets.
    Forgeties79 · 1790704743 · focus · HN ↗
    Sports betting apps are so “gamified” now that many people don’t stand a chance. They’ve made a bleeding edge addiction platform
    shipman05 · 1790705222 · focus · HN ↗
    Permit lotteries. Ban lottery advertising. A moral government shouldn't advertise products known to be harmful to the public.
    someonebaggy · 1790706295 · focus · HN ↗
    Can we just ban all advertising except for word of mouth (but including fake word of mouth)?
    segsgsgseg · 1790712271 · focus · HN ↗
    yes you can enjoy the free speech you want and other people can't tell us more great one
    edoceo · 1790713250 · focus · HN ↗
    Individual humans get free speech, not corporations.
    someonebaggy · 1790756409 · focus · HN ↗
    I get to yell "fire" in a crowded theater?
    edoceo · 1790713136 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd be happy to stop billboards, other large public displays and those shitty coro-plast ones that jerks put next to the slip road telling me they pay cash for houses or have some magical mosquito treatment. Start there and work our way up?
    reducesuffering · 1790705027 · focus · HN ↗
    "we regulate the passive exploitation of people to supplement taxes in a regressive manner."
    I was convinced by this for a full 30 seconds before I realized there are millions of advertisements for the state lotteries. They aren't just regulating a market that will exist with or without the state, they are actively promoting and encouraging it
    bigfishrunning · 1790711803 · focus · HN ↗
    Can only speak for Pennsylvania, where I live, but before the lottery there were numbers games run by organized crime. At least with a state-run lottery they're a bit more honest about how you're getting screwed and they can tax the winnings.
    tuvix · 1790703323 · focus · HN ↗
    The incentives driving state lotteries are not nearly as strong as those driving private companies like Draft Kings but yeah not great either.
    Used to work at 7-Eleven and we would have people come in and out for hours on end pouring money into scratch tickets.
    State lotteries are just a regressive tax targeting the poor.
    autoexec · 1790705342 · focus · HN ↗
    > State lotteries are just a regressive tax targeting the poor.
    As bad as the odds are, the lottery is still the best chance most players will ever have to be millionaires
    fragmede · 1790705738 · focus · HN ↗
    To be a millionaire, maybe, but a $300/month scrather habit over 20 years, in a 401k that's just the SP 500 gets you a quarter million dollars, which isn't nothing to retire on, vs approximately $0 from scratchers.
    gambiting · 1790705879 · focus · HN ↗
    Dude no offense but you must be vastly overestimating how many people can save $300 a month. We're talking about people buying couple lottery tickets a month.
    fragmede · 1790706154 · focus · HN ↗
    That's the problem though. I know many people who can't save $300/month, but easily spend that much in consumables, scratchers, alcohol, drugs, etc. On the subject of gambling addiction, $300/month by someone who can't afford it absolutely happens. Go to a GA meeting sometime. They get their paycheck, gamble it away, and then don't have money for rent. Unrestricted gambling is the devil and will be the downfall of America. I'm not one for "shoulds", but there should be something like an accredited gambler law, where you're not allowed to gamble more than 1/3rd your paycheck except in certain circumstances.
    gambiting · 1790706941 · focus · HN ↗
    So we're in agreement. Those people didn't have $300 to save on anything to begin with, they just spent it anyway at the expense of other needs.
    autoexec · 1790707337 · focus · HN ↗
    > there should be something like an accredited gambler law, where you're not allowed to gamble more than 1/3rd your paycheck except in certain circumstances.
    What would that look like? Would gamblers have to send copies of their pay stubs or bank statements to every casino or gas station they visit and every gambling app they use? I'd be happy if we focused on restricting the most harmful actions of the companies who profit from the people they turned into addicts. No more online sports betting. No more adverting for gambling. No more targeting children with gambling in video games that accept real money for anything. No more using AI or surveillance to detect and target addicts.
    fragmede · 1790710104 · focus · HN ↗
    Payday loan places usually look at paystubs before extending a loan, so all I'm suggesting is places where you can gamble have to implement the same technology. The restrictions you mention seem harder to pass under a banner of "but muh freedom".
    rootusrootus · 1790716048 · focus · HN ↗
    > We're talking about people buying couple lottery tickets a month
    Those people do not have a gambling problem, though. They are dropping a few bucks a month to buy a daydream. It could be worse, they could be spending 10x that on Starbucks.
    SpicyLemonZest · 1790703654 · focus · HN ↗
    I've got plenty of negative things to say about state government lotteries, but the ones I'm familiar with are structured in less predatory ways. It's hard to spend thousands of dollars on lottery tickets, and impossible to do so in a way that won't feel obviously stupid, especially since you can't buy them on your phone.
    shipman05 · 1790705273 · focus · HN ↗
    especially since you can't buy them on your phone
    Yet
    daeken · 1790712558 · focus · HN ↗
    You can buy them on your phone in some states, e.g. Georgia. Their "scratch offs" look just like slot machines and give the same lovely dopamine spikes; used to drop $100 in every couple months when I just needed happy brain chemicals.

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.