Thread

1. guidoiaquinti · 1790685221 · focus · HN ↗

   Several International Criminal Court (ICC) judges have been unable to access their bank accounts or receive routine salary payments and financial transfers due to financial blockages triggered by United States sanctions. In the country where they live

   1. rapsey · 1790686393 · focus · HN ↗

      ICC judges getting the right wing activist treatment, except the activists get it from their own government.

      1. flohofwoe · 1790687230 · focus · HN ↗

         Concrete examples to verify such claims please? Also in civilized countries such things are decided by the justice system, not the government (which to the surprise of many simple minded people - like a certain US president and his fanbase - is independent from the government).

         1. pc86 · 1790687573 · focus · HN ↗

            In what universe is the judiciary not part of the government?

            1. bunderbunder · 1790688049 · focus · HN ↗

               Government is a term with multiple senses.

               In the US it’s common to only use it to describe the entire apparatus for holding, administering and enforcing state power.

               But it can also be used to mean the current ruling power in a parliamentary system together with the administrative bodies under its direct control. So something more akin to just the executive branch in the US system. And then certain state agencies such as the judiciary are meant to be independent of the government under that meaning of the term. I believe this is the most common understanding of the word outside the US.

               1. edgyquant · 1790688456 · focus · HN ↗

                  Its a really weird use of the word government to not actually refer to the government but to the executive and saying the “courts are outside of the government” makes it seem like they aren’t a part of the state.

                  1. flohofwoe · 1790689147 · focus · HN ↗

                     The important point is that courts have the power to overrule unconstitutional or unlawful government decisions.
                  2. bunderbunder · 1790689559 · focus · HN ↗

                     Why is it so weird that a language as widely spoken as English should have dialectical variation?

                     Wait ‘til you find out what some of my friends mean when they say “pavement”.

                  3. impossiblefork · 1790692517 · focus · HN ↗

                     Consider though system like the Swedish system which existed in the Viking age with Things and a king.

                     Things were courts with huge power, and consisted of a gathering of all free men and had basically unlimited power, because they were the people. Meanwhile, the government was the person of the king.

                     I think that's an example of a system where the courts (Thing) is clearly not part of the government.

                  4. saulapremium · 1790692712 · focus · HN ↗

                     I'd say it's weirder to conflate state and government.
               2. hunterpayne · 1790742074 · focus · HN ↗

                  The Judiciary is one of the 3 branches of the US government. Perhaps English isn't your 1st language, but the courts are always part of the government and the word government would include the courts in English. No, there is no other interpretation of the word government in English.
            2. flohofwoe · 1790688098 · focus · HN ↗

               Germany for instance? Google "Bundesverfassungsgericht". I don't think such a separated checks and balances system is all that unusual in democratic countries. A major task of a "proper" justice system is to keep the government in check.

               1. mike_hearn · 1790693075 · focus · HN ↗

                  The judiciary is always a part of the government. It may be notionally separate from the executive, but that's (a) a different thing and (b) not always meaningful from the perspective of normal citizens. And it's not at all standard that the judiciary is meant to keep the government in check. Historically that's not been the case at all, and the growth of US Supreme Court style powers to invalidate legislation is a relatively recent phenomenon that governments can decide to end or restrict arbitrarily at any time.

                  1. flohofwoe · 1790694329 · focus · HN ↗

                     The word "government" seems to be used differently depending on language and country.

                     For instance in Germany, the specific words "Bundesregierung" (Federal Government, or just short "government") and "Landesregierungen" (State Governments) explicitly describe the "executive part" of the "political system".

                     The Federal and State Parliaments are the "legislative part" and the courts are the "judiciary part" (with the "Federal Constitutional Court" at the top). This whole idea of strict separation of power is the most important foundation of the German political system.

                     When talking about "the government" in Germany, people mean the institutions of the executive (mainly the chancellor and ministries, sometimes also including the president, but never the parliaments and courts).

                     And tbh, I would also have a hard time describing the US Democratic Party as the "current US government" just because they're sitting in the Congress.

                     1. mike_hearn · 1790695385 · focus · HN ↗

                        The term government is ambiguous in English as well, which is why people who want to talk precisely about statecraft use the words "executive" or "administration" to refer specifically to the part that isn't the parliament or judiciary. Sometimes people use the word "state" to refer to the combination of all of them, but in common parlance the word government can be used interchangeably with the word state and people who aren't especially political would normally do so.
            3. sholladay · 1790689289 · focus · HN ↗

               It is, but in casual conversation, “government” often means the people/party currently in power (of the executive and/or legislature).

               You can see this when people say “[X] is unable to form a government”. They don’t mean unable to form a judiciary.

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