Thread

500k facial scans at UK stations yield no arrests, 1 false positive

518 points · 305 comments · ilamont

benbristow · 1790684193 · focus · HN ↗
I've had an idea in the back of my head but I'm no businessman so have this one for free.
Build an AI model, train it from the catalogues of JD Sports and Sports Direct (and other brands like Stone Island etc.) and how to detect balaclavas, illegal electric bikes and e-scooters. Have it link to cameras and do a percentage chance using machine learning on chance of crime. Also increase the percentage if a 'wheely' is done (riding only on back wheel).
Would minority report the majority of crime in this country in one fell swoop.
Could call it ScroteScanner.
Some would call it discrimination but the majority of ASB I see around my area are people dressed/using those exact things.
If they start to catch-on (unlikely) then worse case we have a fancier looking society with gangsters in suits again.
1. Waterluvian · 1790684826 · focus · HN ↗
  They should just round up and imprison all the people who walk in my neighbourhood.
  Some would call it discrimination but the majority of people who commit crimes in my area are people who can walk. I rarely see the wheelchair crowd pulling off B&Es.
  Oh, or people who wear clothes. Criminals seem to like wearing clothes. Point proven: you never see nudists shoplifting Old Navy.
  1. benbristow · 1790685059 · focus · HN ↗
    People on illegal escooters or illegal electric bikes are already committing crimes, there's rarely a decent reason to be wearing a balaclava in the city.
    As I said, machine learning to take all these pointers into perspective.
    MSFT_Edging · 1790685459 · focus · HN ↗
    In the age of everything being filmed in a panopticon, I look at the teens wearing balaclava and wonder where they bought theirs. Good on them for having a modicum of privacy.
    Waterluvian · 1790685890 · focus · HN ↗
    I think what makes this resemble a moronic idea is it’s a thin veneer of an invention based on your personal stereotyped perspective.
    The real challenge, if you wanted to work on the meat of the issue, is that we need to reduce crime without catching the innocent in the net, without having a chilling effect on legal behaviour and people’s rights, and without normalizing the mindset that we should just precrime people.
    One of the core points of Minority Report is in the film’s title: that even if technology becomes 99.99% accurate, we are still damned by the destruction of due process and the presumption of innocence.
    I think ideas like yours belong in the incinerator.
    b112 · 1790687891 · focus · HN ↗
    While what you say has merit in isolation, you're replying to a post where the person says "they're already doing illegal things". If the cameras pick up people "breaking the law", using further algo on that seems... sensible?
    EG, the gatekeep is 'already should get a ticket or something'.
    I actually oppose all cameras, and think we should just have more police in the streets. It's how policing used to be done. Human judgement.
    benbristow · 1790725687 · focus · HN ↗
    I would agree to having more police in the street, but their budget just seems to be getting cut week after week and they're struggling. They seem to be around 9-5 and after that the streets turn into a free-for-all.
    [deleted] · 1790688752 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    some_random · 1790689477 · focus · HN ↗
    The balaclava thing is stupid, but you're missing the point that they're already doing something illegal. If you think anti-ebike law is stupid then that law should be repealed, not ignored.
    ryandrake · 1790694737 · focus · HN ↗
    There are degrees of crime though. Is going after e-bikes really important enough to justify a surveillance panopticon?
    I mean, in some places jaywalking is a crime. Do we really need to spend resources going after jaywalkers?
    some_random · 1790713850 · focus · HN ↗
    No, I certainly don't think so. The problem is that fighting people pushing the surveillance panopticon by lying about their motivations doesn't work.
    pjc50 · 1790690922 · focus · HN ↗
    The unlicensed ebike, while not a serious problem, is a really annoying one in certain places, and everybody suspects that it's not a wave of people doing it but in fact a fairly small number of people doing antisocial things over and over again. Who are relying on being untraceable and on a versatile getaway vehicle.
    <a href="https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2025/11/thirteen-e-bikes-seized-during-police-operation-in-fountainbridge/?print=print" rel="nofollow">https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2025/11/thirteen-e-bikes-...
    Note that "illegal motorbike with no plates" is an offense that you can detect just by looking at it. There's no "pre" in the crime. The problem is either stopping them or tracing them.
    gadders · 1790693062 · focus · HN ↗
    ..And the broken windows theory of prosecuting minor crime to deter major crime worked pretty well in Guiliani New York.
    madeofpalk · 1790700828 · focus · HN ↗
    Wait. Is this Poe’s Law in action? This isn’t satire or sarcasm?
    someonebaggy · 1790686045 · focus · HN ↗
    Is arresting someone for (what fact about?) their scooter actually making society better?
    Comments like these reinforce my belief that the UK is a panopticon because UK residents sincerely want one and not because the government is corrupt.
    benbristow · 1790686628 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes, they actively make public spaces unpleasant and dangerous. Town centres are on their knees as people don't want to go there anymore due to ASB like this.
    someonebaggy · 1790688664 · focus · HN ↗
    Wow! How bad does a scooter have to be for people to avoid the whole town center?
    benbristow · 1790688830 · focus · HN ↗
    It's not just them, you've got ebikes going 30mph, kids/teens congregating on bikes in balaclavas. Come look for yourself and see if you don't feel intimidated.
    someonebaggy · 1790690640 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh! I live somewhere like that. I just don't be intimidated by things unless I have a reason to be intimidated. Although scary looking people congregate sometimes, they've never actually harmed me so I don't avoid the whole area. And the few times I've ever interacted with a scary looking person, they were chill.
    Tendency to fear has to be one of those personality axes. Studies found that political conservatives have larger amygdala (the part of their brain that governs things like fear) so maybe this is something similar.
    its_ethan · 1790694870 · focus · HN ↗
    This is the mindset I'd expect from a toddler - "it hasn't happened to me yet so it's not a problem and people who think it is are overreacting".
    Should we also treat drinking and driving a no-big-deal thing since you haven't been affected by that either? Can you let us know what else your fellow countrymen are doing wrong in your estimation, based on your own narrow slice of lived experiences?
    Can you really not put yourself in the shoes of, say, a young woman walking home in the dark feeling intimidated by a group of men wearing masks? Like it takes half a second of self-reflection and critical thinking to come up with a very believable, commonly occurring scenario that would lead to someone thinking differently than you. Give it a try sometime.
    Another user a level up in this thread has also linked articles to 2 hospitalizations and a dead dog that are the result of e-bikes being used in places they're prohibited, so clearly it's an issue that needs addressing. Being smarmy and self-aggrandizing about it is a really bad look for you.
    someonebaggy · 1790699744 · focus · HN ↗
    > "it hasn't happened to me yet so it's not a problem and people who think it is are overreacting".
    I've never been attacked by a ghost-possessed toothbrush but I still avoid the toothbrush aisle just in case. It's a real problem. I'm not overreacting.
    its_ethan · 1790715617 · focus · HN ↗
    Thanks for doubling down on being facetious and making me feel better that I didn't just jump to conclusions about you, and that I made the right assumptions lol
    cguess · 1790691701 · focus · HN ↗
    AH! THE YOUTH!
    pjc50 · 1790691333 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-report-three-surron-style-electric-motorbikes-involved-in-edinburgh-hit-and-run-8746045" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/police-report-th... (hospitalized woman)
    <a href="https://www.pressreader.com/uk/edinburgh-evening-news/20260905/281509348060994" rel="nofollow">https://www.pressreader.com/uk/edinburgh-evening-news/202609... (killed dog)
    <a href="https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburgh-motorist-chases-e-bike-33862396" rel="nofollow">https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/edinburg...
    <a href="https://news.stv.tv/east-central/schoolboy-charged-and-teens-traced-after-illegal-off-road-bike-use-and-fire-raising-in-edinburgh" rel="nofollow">https://news.stv.tv/east-central/schoolboy-charged-and-teens...
    <a href="https://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2025/04/28/police-scotland-give-update-on-e-bike-patrols-after-spate-of-incidents-in-city/" rel="nofollow">https://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2025/04/28/police-scotland-gi... (hospitalized kid)
    All fun and games until someone gets seriously injured or their dog killed. I had a run-in a couple of years ago with some kids on a motorbike trying (unsuccessfully) to knock me off my pedal bike.
    someonebaggy · 1790694784 · focus · HN ↗
    And the problem with this is that the scooter doesn't have a license plate, is it?
    pjc50 · 1790695626 · focus · HN ↗
    That enables the hit-and-run incidents. The whole point of making vehicles have license plates in the first place is traceability for criminal and civil liability for injury or damage.
    someonebaggy · 1790699681 · focus · HN ↗
    Has anyone with a license plate ever hit and ran?
    deadbunny · 1790697523 · focus · HN ↗
    Most town centres are 90% boarded up forgotten realms. They have been in decline for decades, blaming it on people riding e-scooters and illegal e-motorcycles is laughable.
    benbristow · 1790725882 · focus · HN ↗
    It's a catch-22. They're boarded up realms because even after the online shopping revolution and attempts to regenerate them people don't want to go because they're full of deadbeats and ASB. Who would want to open a business there? For christ sake our local McDonalds is now playing Mozart at full blast in the evening outside to try and keep the ferral youth away as it's in the bang center and a popular hangout spot. It's somewhat working to an extent, but they're still around.
    There's going to be a generation of ex-youths nostalgic for Mozart from their days hanging around McDonald's - I'd get shares in Classic FM if you've got money.
    sebzim4500 · 1790687728 · focus · HN ↗
    > Is arresting someone for (what fact about?) their scooter actually making society better?
    In London people are scooters are often mildly annoying.
    >Comments like these reinforce my belief that the UK is a panopticon because UK residents sincerely want one and not because the government is corrupt.
    You are correct, despite what you will see on HN/reddit the UK electorate are united only in wanting more authoritarianism at any cost.
    smcg · 1790691131 · focus · HN ↗
    brexit proved that the UK would rather stab itself than show accord with anyone
    pjc50 · 1790691578 · focus · HN ↗
    > (what fact about?) their scooter actually making society better?
    - illegal motorbike (ebike not complying with type restrictions)
    - no plates (enables evading liability for damage or injury caused)
    - underage riders / no license (danger to self and others)
    - no helmet (personally I'm least bothered about this, but it is a legal requirement and safety issue if you're doing high speeds on a motorbike without one)
    The "no plates" leads to hit-and-run incidents in which people have been seriously injured and a dog killed. There have also been incidents of these underage illegal riders getting themselves killed or seriously injured; while that's their own fault it's not something we should entirely shrug off.
    > because UK residents sincerely want one
    Yeah, this is kind of a general problem (online ""safety""), but the ebike kids are also a real problem. And not just in the UK.
    adammarples · 1790686528 · focus · HN ↗
    Trouble is you'd be scooping up 90% of boys in a certain race, class, age bracket, because those ballys and bikes and Nike tech are effectively fashion at this point even if you're doing nothing wrong. And if that's the case you don't need AI you can just wait outside the school gates and arrest everyone.
    benbristow · 1790686705 · focus · HN ↗
    Those are the types likely to be committing a lot of the crimes. Come to a working class town and see for yourself, or go on any local town Facebook group or council page and look at the comments.
    [deleted] · 1790690660 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    adammarples · 1790696386 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm in Tottenham I don't need to go to your town to get the point. However the point remains, you can't just arrest an entire social cohort.
    benbristow · 1790697305 · focus · HN ↗
    Wasn't saying arrest, I mean pre warning/monitoring. If you run a shop you'd get an alert saying watch your fours.
    someonebaggy · 1790699931 · focus · HN ↗
    So the police should set up a Flock network for teenage boys or what?
    benbristow · 1790726263 · focus · HN ↗
    I have no idea what Flock is, last I knew it was a web browser designed for social media which failed.
    someonebaggy · 1790756469 · focus · HN ↗
    You must've been living under a rock. Flock is the panopticon camera network in the USA. It watches most people's location most of the time, so the police can just type in someone's identifier and find out where they are and where they've been.
    someonebaggy · 1790699902 · focus · HN ↗
    Indeed, that's why it's recommended to stand outside the school gates and arrest them as they leave school. Very efficient.
    benbristow · 1790726353 · focus · HN ↗
    Not arrest, you could monitor though. Personal anecdote but it's clear that after 3pm/4pm once they leave school they start to scatter around. It's rather peaceful for the most part before then. Chaos on school holidays.
    roryirvine · 1790691647 · focus · HN ↗
    It'd be much more effective to close the gaping loopholes which allow importing, selling, and servicing unrestricted and unsafe ebikes and escooters (currently you just need to have some small print informing riders that they should be insured, licensed, and only use them on roads where mopeds are permitted - even though no-one actually does that).
    Ideally, you'd go back in time and do this before the problem really took off - but failing that, you could introduce scrappage/swap schemes to incentivise taking existing bikes out of circulation.
    To tighten things up further, you might think about making safety certification mandatory, and force delivery platforms to take responsibility for ensuring that their riders are using only certified bikes.
    Deal with the source of the problem rather than wasting police time on chasing down every teenage cyclist or bringing back sus laws.
    z3c0 · 1790704732 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd say the biggest indicator towards crime is self-absorption and lack of empathy. Apparently, HN comments are great place to devise a corpus upon.

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