Thread

1. legitster · 1790630747 · focus · HN ↗

   My parents live in a massive fruit growing region of the country. Just this year, 2 of the major packing firms in the county both declared bankruptcy. It's not just the trade war, but years of shrinking seasonal workers that fell off to a trickle as well.

   The knock on effect is massive. The seasonal workers supported a large permanent workforce - and more importantly tax revenues in the county are collapsing.

   But the really important thing to understand is that once the industry is gone, it's gone for a long time. The other markets competing with the US are already expanding their industries to fill the void. Once those trees are planted, they produce fruit for several decades to come.

   1. TheJoeMan · 1790646146 · focus · HN ↗

      From a layman perspective, American fruit growers refused to change with the times. How long are they still trying to make the “Red Delicious” apple work? Another ex-major packer I know of made the peach fruit cups, which people have been catching on are just filled with corn syrup. But these have been long term purchasing trends, yet the growers seemed blindsided by the packers ceasing operations.

      1. bradfa · 1790646428 · focus · HN ↗

         There has been massive innovation and development in apples in the past 20 years. Every apple farm with a clue is growing trees for the past decade that look nothing like the trees of old. They’re growing varieties that didn’t exist 20 years ago. If you’re still seeing Red Delicious anywhere, it’s on the buyers at your local markets that missed the boat.

         1. boringg · 1790648511 · focus · HN ↗

            I mean it also takes a long to build an orchard and get the apples to fruit. So older orchards are happily still producing old varietals instead of ripping and replacing the trees. Not everything old must be replaced with new - so wasteful.

            1. WalterBright · 1790648979 · focus · HN ↗

               I planted an apple tree in my yard 20 years go, just for fun. Last year, it finally decided to push out more than a few apples. This year, it put out so many the branches have bent nearly to the ground.

               1. NegativeLatency · 1790651366 · focus · HN ↗

                  Possibly you know this but there are pruning techniques to get a good yield of also good tasting apples
               2. WD-42 · 1790659114 · focus · HN ↗

                  Get the fruit off the tree. I had one blow over and die because it was too heavy in strong wind

                  1. WalterBright · 1790660106 · focus · HN ↗

                     Sounds like a good idea.
            2. Dylan16807 · 1790658194 · focus · HN ↗

               Of course you don't replace everything old with new.

               But when the specific varietal always sucked, that's a good reason to replace it.

            3. jppope · 1790658402 · focus · HN ↗

               Espaliers and different pruning techniques can have you up and producing fruit in 3-5 years. Totally popping under 10.
         2. djtango · 1790648533 · focus · HN ↗

            Is that why apples just taste like sugary water nowadays and barely taste of apples?

            1. stickfigure · 1790649601 · focus · HN ↗

               I have no idea what you are talking about. The honeycrisp revolution made me like apples again. Maybe your taste buds have changed?

               1. djtango · 1790862209 · focus · HN ↗

                  I don't think I've ever seen a honey crisp. I had to look them up I think they're more common in the US. But the royal galas, pink ladys, jazz and fuji all are just really sweet

                  1. [deleted] · 1791014879 · focus · HN ↗

                     [deleted]

               2. djtango · 1791014912 · focus · HN ↗

                  I found a shop selling Hunnyz which is a mix of honey crisp and it was quite nice much nicer than some of these sugar water variants you get nowadays. Still quite sweet but at least it tasted like an apple. So thank you for the recommendation
         3. Der_Einzige · 1790648946 · focus · HN ↗

            Idiot consumers forcing us to take forever for market innovations to come to market is not even close to new, and the consumers 100% deserve the blame, contempt, and policies designed to frustrate them.

            I have to deal with this crap right now in the world of laundry and adjacent world of cleaning. We've had new Enzymes finally hitting the market en-mass for the first time in decades (DNAse/Lipase) which when combined in full spectrum with all other known enzymes leads to truly superior cleaning results. Literally no one has any excuse anymore for smelly clothes as a result of these innovations, and it's probably going to take another 5 years minimum for anyone outside of the nerds on r/laundry and other enthusiast communities to take advantage of these new innovations. For now, the so called "gold standard" Tide laundry detergent people are buying is straight up incomplete and could be tomorrow reformulated with both enzymes to radically improve its performance and isn't for... reasons???

            Where else have we straight up regressed on technology? Vacuum cleaners were better in the 1980s when a higher percentage of America used central vacuums, an objectively superior technology. Guns were often made to higher metallurgical standards, CRT vector displays (Vectrex) to this day get better effective refresh rates, brightness, and glow effects than existing displays (OLED) and peaked in the 1980s.

            "Worse is better", literally, and all because of idiot consumers voting wrong with their wallet. They deserve contempt.

            Oh, and Americans refusing to embrace bidet toilet seats, or air purification (both important circa covid, fecal plums and poor indoor air quality were a significant infection vector!)

            1. luqtas · 1790652235 · focus · HN ↗

               i don't think one necessarily needs the best of the best... probably cheap is enough for a bunch of people

               i'll start by having my OLED smartphone dying after many years and the one i got used LCD. much worse and it felt like plastic. colors, brightness, even if my screen now refreshes twice as fast as the previous - fast forward 2 years i don't think i ever thought about the difference, nor saw it after 1 or 2 weeks with my phone

               totally valid critique on durable products and better substances for cleaning although

            2. lazide · 1790655027 · focus · HN ↗

               I literally can’t think of the last time I had laundry that didn’t clean up perfectly fine with normal laundry detergent.

               WTF?

               This just sounds like yet another thing that can give me a rash or some kind of weird cancer in 20 years.

               1. astrange · 1790655788 · focus · HN ↗

                  Ever tried getting curry or blood stains out of anything?

                  1. lazide · 1790656725 · focus · HN ↗

                     Blood stains are easy. Wash cold, and they come right out.

                     I can’t remember the last time I had curry stains on anything, and I lived in central India for a year. I just used the typical local detergent and did my own laundry. Always cold though.

                     1. astrange · 1790697701 · focus · HN ↗

                        You might be lucky. Those both typically don't wash out and can set if you do it wrong.

                        For curry, it does get better if you leave it out in the sun a day and pretreat it, I forget why.

                        1. lazide · 1790716287 · focus · HN ↗

                           I just wash them in cold water the moment they happen (or as close to it as possible), with some soap. Works fine.

                           Setting takes time. Heat makes it worse, as it accelerates the chemical reactions.

                           Most of the heavy duty stuff is when people ignore it, or industrial settings.

                  2. reverse_list · 1790675257 · focus · HN ↗

                     Ok so I have a soy sauce, or so I think it is, stain that I can't remove on a shirt. Is it still possible to clean it? Nothing I've tried seems to get rid of it.

                     1. lazide · 1790690061 · focus · HN ↗

                        That is where the enzyme cleaners might help. It’s a protein stain.

                        They sell little cleaner sticks (look like deodorant sticks or the like). Most dry cleaners will have someone who specializes in stain removal.

               2. AlanYx · 1790691028 · focus · HN ↗

                  A lot depends on what clothes you're washing. Modern enzymes are most useful with modern synthetic material blends, especially underwear. If you've ever had that type of thing stay stinky after washing, that's what's missing.

                  If you're wearing mostly cotton, normal detergent is largely fine unless it's heavily soiled/stained.

            3. ikr678 · 1790662464 · focus · HN ↗

               I don't know that central vacs were the height of vac technology, but I cannot understand how weak cordless/battery vacuums have such marketshare compared to a vacuum unit that gets 110/240v of power direct from the wall.

               1. asdff · 1790664637 · focus · HN ↗

                  No one wants to wrangle a cord or locate a plug evidently. I don't mind it but people have made their choice.
            4. asdff · 1790664531 · focus · HN ↗

               The enzyme stuff is funny to me. DNAse, no purpose there. Why not RNAse too? People can't articulate why they even want a DNA degrading enzyme. Lipase to degrade lipids seems good, but then again, that is already the function of soap.

               1. Der_Einzige · 1790714760 · focus · HN ↗

                  Exhibit A on "why it takes 5 years for awesome innovations to come to market" right here!
            5. adwn · 1790679671 · focus · HN ↗

               > CRT vector displays (Vectrex) to this day get better effective refresh rates, brightness, and glow effects than existing displays (OLED) and peaked in the 1980s

               Except that they're absolutely huge and heavy for any halfway decent screen size and resolution. If I were to replace my two 24-inch screens with CRTs, I'd need a second desk for them alone.

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