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Updated Google Maps shows destruction of the city of Rafah

943 points · 947 comments · slowin

saturn_vk · 1790616232 · focus · HN ↗
It's sad that most world leaders do nothing to combat such genocide. There are so few sanctions against the state, or specific people, of Israel. Foreign forums are very much still open for business to them.
1. bamboozled · 1790636445 · focus · HN ↗
  What do you think world leaders should've done differently?
  1. cogman10 · 1790637983 · focus · HN ↗
    A lot.
    Literally on Oct 7, Hamas tried to return civilian hostages, who the IDF killed. This is why Hamas changed policies to only give up hostages through 3rd parties. They reached out to israel to try and return hostages and were ignored. They reached out to the US to return hostages and were ignored. [1]
    So for starters, the US could have pressured Israel to negotiate with Hamas to return the hostages.
    As Israel started to show genocidal intent (for example, killing aide workers multiple times). The US could have at a minimum threaten to withhold aide. In fact, there are laws on the books that a country such as Israel committing war crimes is ineligible for aide.
    Finally, the UN should have deployed peace keepers to gaza specifically to stop the genocide.
    Actions could have been taken, but they weren't because our politicians are so bribed by Israeli lobby money as to turn a complete blind eye to it's misdeeds.
    [1] <a href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-politics/2026-09-15/ty-article/.premium/hostage-families-release-list-of-govt-decisions-preceding-oct-7/000001a0-a521-dea8-afe0-e5adef4a0000" rel="nofollow">https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-politics/2026-09-...
    hamsteredf · 1790640340 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    monideas · 1790664463 · focus · HN ↗
    What he means is they could have been traded for all of the concessions Hamas wanted in exchange for them.
    And yes this is true but the reason you couldn’t comprehend his point is because his point is insane.
    cogman10 · 1790681095 · focus · HN ↗
    This is an uncharitable reading of my point and not what I meant.
    monideas · 1790681847 · focus · HN ↗
    What did you mean then?
    cogman10 · 1790685292 · focus · HN ↗
    > They reached out to israel to try and return hostages and were ignored. They reached out to the US to return hostages and were ignored.
    That Hamas was open extremely early on in the conflict to negotiations for returning hostages and Israel and the US knew this while they waged a bombing campaign and pretended like Hamas wasn't trying or willing to return hostages.
    Negotiations weren't happening because Israel didn't want those negotiations, not because they weren't available.
    And, I don't know if you are aware, but negotiations involve give and take. Israel didn't need to "traded for all of the concessions Hamas wanted in exchange for them".
    The reason the hostages weren't returned sooner is because Israel didn't want them. In 2024 Hamas accepted all of Israel's terms multiple times only for Israel to change terms. Israel knew they'd have fewer justifications for their genocide if they got the hostages back.
    That's my point.
    monideas · 1790685478 · focus · HN ↗
    This is exactly what I said you were saying
    cogman10 · 1790685628 · focus · HN ↗
    You said.
    > What he means is they could have been traded for all of the concessions Hamas wanted in exchange for them.
    Where in my writing did I say that Israel needed to accept all concessions. Please quote me.
    Do you think it's unreasonable or "insane" for Israel to have accepted some concessions for the safe return of hostages?
    monideas · 1790686087 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes it would have been insane to accept any concessions. If you don’t understand that then you have work to do on yourself. This is a very weak and suicidal position to take.
    cogman10 · 1790686332 · focus · HN ↗
    > Yes it would have been insane to accept any concessions.
    Any? Like even a temporary ceasefire? That's a suicidal position?
    Notice how you had to change from "all" to "any".
    monideas · 1790686608 · focus · HN ↗
    There were many temporary ceasefires in exchange for hostages but this was done as part of the broader war effort, ultimately Israel is not bound to anything in these “agreements”. It’s basically just saying and doing whatever needs to be said and done to accomplish the war goals.
    cogman10 · 1790687038 · focus · HN ↗
    A ceasefire is a concession. And my point, which I think is clear, is there's a pretty wide gap between "They have to accept all hamas concessions" and "they have to negotiate".
    It's pretty hard for you to argue against the fact that there are, in fact, reasonable concessions that aren't "suicidal".
    monideas · 1790687265 · focus · HN ↗
    The context of this discussion is the idea that war could have been avoided if Israel had been willing to negotiate with Hamas over the hostages.
    cogman10 · 1790688396 · focus · HN ↗
    That is not the context of the discussion. The context is "what should world leaders have done differently".
    And, I never said that the war was either avoidable or that Israel was wrong to use force after Oct 7.
    What I am saying is that the war could have ended years ago and that Israel has committed genocide. I'm also saying that the pretext that it was about "getting the hostages home" was false.
    And with that context, yes there are things world leaders should have done to stop Israel from committing genocide.

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