Thread

Has Violence Against Teachers Become Accepted by Society?

148 points · 332 comments · obscurette

Ambolia · 1790606557 · focus · HN ↗
That the whole article can be seen as a masterpiece of talking around the obvious while avoiding stepping on the mine. Obvious rules cannot be applied systematically because certain government metrics would look bad. Goodhart's law, any explicit metric will be immediately optimized. And this is people optimizing metrics as best as they can in play. I'll leave the obvious as an exercise for the reader.
<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
1. dash2 · 1790607028 · focus · HN ↗
  Why not just say what you mean? This sort of nudge nudge wink wink stuff is so weird.
  1. vlyan · 1790608758 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
    [deleted] · 1790608985 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    mahboi · 1790609160 · focus · HN ↗
    What's the metric optimized here, minimize black students expelled?
    DaSHacka · 1790612508 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes, or rather "minimize frivolous civil rights lawsuits", which would come as a downstream of having skewed racial expulsion rates.
    mahboi · 1790618308 · focus · HN ↗
    If it's really this, seems there needs to be some state or federal pushback against these lawsuits. Cause idk about schools, but it's gotten out of hand elsewhere. We've already seen the SCOTUS ruling against DEI very quickly having a positive impact on universities and even corps.
    criagsbkbk · 1790616787 · focus · HN ↗
    To some degree it's a concern for "problematic" statistical outcomes, but it's also anti-bias training, both explicit and implicit, giving individual decision makers hesitancy when dulling out punishments.
    mahboi · 1790651205 · focus · HN ↗
    Wonder if "problematic" and bias training are still a thing or if that went away 2 years ago. Did notice we stopped getting those trainings at work.
    zdragnar · 1790609409 · focus · HN ↗
    I am reminded of a former boss's niece who was a kindergarten teacher in a rural, very white district. No physical abuse, but she was very surprised the first time a kid started cussing her out.
    It's not a race issue so much as a poverty and cultural issue. Any racial correlation is a proxy for those two things.
    phoghed · 1790609492 · focus · HN ↗
    Have to be careful forming your world view based on worldstar TikTok, you might be getting Chinese psy-opped
    DaSHacka · 1790612564 · focus · HN ↗
    Right, as opposed to other media where you wouldn't be?
    mahboi · 1790615416 · focus · HN ↗
    Wouldn't be Chinese I guess
    phoghed · 1790620844 · focus · HN ↗
    Sundar, Elon, and Zuck have my best interests in mind and at the forefront of their goals. Xi wants nothing more than the downfall of my glorious Western values. He’ll stop at nothing, even stooping so low as to violate the Anthropic terms of service.
    hasviolence · 1790611165 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://books.google.com/books/about/Don_t_Make_the_Black_Kids_Angry.html?id=GIf0rQEACAAJ" rel="nofollow">https://books.google.com/books/about/Don_t_Make_the_Black_Ki...
    palmotea · 1790611309 · focus · HN ↗
    > CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform
    Yeah, no.
    zug_zug · 1790614723 · focus · HN ↗
    So what?
    Let's take aside the charged component of this and just suppose hypothetically that 100% of the assaulting students belonged to some subgroup. So what?
    They may be 100% black, or 100% male, or something, but it's not like you can reasonably just say "So no males at our school." Regardless of whether you can find a subgroup who this belongs to with a very low specificity, you still need policies that tackle the behavior itself rather than trying to find some really weak predictor.
    criagsbkbk · 1790616090 · focus · HN ↗
    I'll bite. The importance is this: if you do not acknowledge a disproportion of a certain group committing the offenses, then you cannot enforce punishments without them seeming inequitable. If 90% of the suspensions of students come from a certain protected group, if you refuse to believe they are 90% of the offenders, we must roll back the policies because they are clearly bias.
    mahboi · 1790617956 · focus · HN ↗
    Or the simpler way is to not acknowledge what group is committing offenses and not care what group is receiving punishment. People rightfully get suspicious when it's about groups.
    casefields · 1790614828 · focus · HN ↗
    As if that wasn't bad enough, Trump revoked the Obama/Biden which didn't allow schools punish black students unless they punished an equal amount of whites:
    <a href="https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/education-department-tells-schools-race-cant-factor-into-student-discipline/2026/08" rel="nofollow">https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/education-department-...
    nitwit005 · 1790619259 · focus · HN ↗
    Saying you're too lazy to actually check if these videos are genuinely all black students, but someone could do it, and you know the answer even without checking somehow, isn't exactly convincing.
    There just aren't enough blacks in the US for them to completely dominate any crime. To be at your imagined rate of 90% of instances being black, when only 13 or 14% of the population, would require a ridiculously high rate compared to every other group.

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