Thread

Breaking Up with Google Play: Why Conversations Is Now Free

708 points · 296 comments · ezst

4chandaily · 1790423618 · focus · HN ↗
Customer support has gotten so terrible. Now that all big companies have terrible support, none of them are punished for it. You can still occasionally find people who give a shit in small business, but that is it. Google is probably one of the worst offenders of all. I don't know what the solution is, it seems like the only way to get any satisfaction on an issue at a big corp anymore is a social medial call-out like this one.
If you are here, thank you for Conversations, Daniel, it has been my go-to for years for communicating with friends and family.
1. utopiah · 1790425016 · focus · HN ↗
  That's because you the user are not the customer of Google and such services. You are actually the product being sold to the customer, namely advertising companies, by Google.
  The farmer take care of his pigs but only to the point they get slaughtered.
  1. Loquebantur · 1790426191 · focus · HN ↗
    Google has captured what really is a public utility and should be either state-owned or heavily regulated.
    (Long) distance communications, just like public roads, breathable air, potable drinking water and so on do not fit into a "free market economy" paradigm.
    They simply don't fulfill the basic requirements that make the "market" idea work.
    Specifically, a free market needs goods from different suppliers to be easily interchangeable. You cannot sensibly build multiple roads parallel to each other, or have multiple water pipes installed and you have only one airway to breath through.
    philipallstar · 1790427476 · focus · HN ↗
    Nothing has been captured, any more than a company inventing anything has "captured" it.
    And there are other companies: Apple, Samsung, Huawei, Tencent MyApp, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Honor, K Telecom T-Store, Jio, MTN Play.
    Not even close to a captured utility. And if it were, which state on the planet should own it?
    Matl · 1790427809 · focus · HN ↗
    > there are other companies: Apple, Samsung, Huawei, Tencent MyApp, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Honor,
    Tell me about the different OSes each of Samsung, Huawei, Tencent MyApp, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Honor etc. run then that we can choose from.
    It's like saying Windows doesn't have a monopoly in the PC space because HP, Dell, Lenovo, ASUS.
    pjmlp · 1790427928 · focus · HN ↗
    Except OEMS don't ship Windows forks with their own SDKs, UI frameworks, custom L&F, alternative stores.
    Contrary to Google, Microsoft has a clear position on what OEMs are allowed to do with Windows.
    mitxela · 1790428233 · focus · HN ↗
    Google lets these forks do anything they want except things that take away money from Google.
    pjmlp · 1790434758 · focus · HN ↗
    Xioami, Huawei and Samsung have their own stores.
    Matl · 1790436620 · focus · HN ↗
    Why are you pretending anyone uses them? These phones ship with Google Play and that's what people use.
    pjmlp · 1790441733 · focus · HN ↗
    Because people do use them as well, especially outside Western countries.
    Dylan16807 · 1790466281 · focus · HN ↗
    Too bad I'm in a western country. I'm glad parts of the world escaped the duopoly but my part still needs to be fixed.
    pjmlp · 1790494307 · focus · HN ↗
    Get a Jolla.
    mitxela · 1790445212 · focus · HN ↗
    Does this fact take money away from Google?
    pjmlp · 1790445822 · focus · HN ↗
    Naturally.
    Matl · 1790428424 · focus · HN ↗
    Android OEMs largely don't do that either except for some specific markets where Google isn't a thing. Google does have rules for when you want to be certified and have Google Play and Google services on board, which you mostly do in the West and so OEMs comply.
    Sure, they may ship a Samsung skin or preload some of their own junk, same as on Windows. That doesn't make what they ship a different OS.
    The one exception would be HarmonyOS, but that's somewhat China specific.
    pjmlp · 1790434776 · focus · HN ↗
    Xioami, Huawei and Samsung all have the points I mentioned, with Android forks.
    Harmony NEXT is no longer based on Android.
    Matl · 1790436559 · focus · HN ↗
    > Xioami, Huawei and Samsung all have the points I mentioned, with Android forks
    If I buy a Samsung phone in North America or Europe today I get Google Play as the main app store, Google services etc. and if I want to develop an app for a Samsung Android phone, I use the official Google SDK and Kotlin like for every other Android phone.
    They have their own skin and store, but nobody really uses that. Google Play it is, be it Samsung or Xioami. They're very far from offering any kind of genuine alternative to Google Play, Google or Android. Their stores are junkware no different than ASUS preinstalling some antivirus nobody wants.
    > Harmony NEXT is no longer based on Android.
    That's my point. Huawei is the only OEM offering something different, but not easy to get in Western markets and thus doesn't have app mindshare.
    pjmlp · 1790441529 · focus · HN ↗
    Nothing prevents you from using Samsung, Xiaomi or Huawei stores and cloud services, Google Play is only the main store if you configure it as such.
    Google SDK naturally doesn't have the support for OEMs specific features.
    Leaving just one Samsung example here, too lazy to dump everything else,
    <a href="https://developer.samsung.com/mobile/galaxy-sdk-getting-started.html" rel="nofollow">https://developer.samsung.com/mobile/galaxy-sdk-getting-star...
    I am yet to see anyone disable OneUI, MIUI, HyperOS, EMUI for bare bones AOSP UI.
    Matl · 1790504762 · focus · HN ↗
    You seem to not understand, among other things, what a duopoly is.
    pjmlp · 1790579083 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh I do understand, those who don't understand are those without any clue about market legislation.
    It is not their opinion that matters, rather what the law says and how many players are in the market, regardless of their size.
    philipallstar · 1790431229 · focus · HN ↗
    > Tell me about the different OSes each of Samsung, Huawei, Tencent MyApp, Xiaomi, Oppo, Vivo, Honor etc. run then that we can choose from.
    Other companies using Google's incredible R&D spend and selling phones that use it is not Google's failing.
    And we're talking app stores. They all have app stores disconnected from Google's app store.
    > It's like saying Windows doesn't have a monopoly in the PC space because HP, Dell, Lenovo, ASUS.
    No, on two counts. One: - and it's the same with Android - Apple exists, and so there's definitely not a monopoly from a lowercase personal computing perspective. Two: the conversation is about app stores. There are many app stores. It's like saying Microsoft doesn't have a PC hardware monopoly because HP, Dell, Lenovo, ASUS.
    Matl · 1790431702 · focus · HN ↗
    > They all have app stores disconnected from Google's app store
    No they don't. Certainly not ones where my bank app or Netflix is. This is being obtuse on purpose.
    philipallstar · 1790439401 · focus · HN ↗
    > No they don't.
    Yes. They do.
    > Certainly not ones where my bank app or Netflix is.
    Blaming Google for this is just insanity.
    > This is being obtuse on purpose.
    Agreed.
    margalabargala · 1790431837 · focus · HN ↗
    > Other companies using Google's incredible R&D spend and selling phones that use it is not Google's failing
    On the contrary. I disagree.
    It's possible to build something so successful and difficult that it rises to the level of public utility.
    philipallstar · 1790439347 · focus · HN ↗
    Why not say that Samsung's phone manufacturing is a public utility? That's successful and difficult.
    margalabargala · 1790440198 · focus · HN ↗
    Samsung is, as pointed out elsewhere in the thread, one among many. Like Dell. It's different in kind, not in degree.
    If you make that comparison you clearly don't understand the point being brought up by others here. Which is fine. I'm not going to convince you, I'm just informing you how I'll be voting.
    Loquebantur · 1790428124 · focus · HN ↗
    You're deluding yourself.
    Pretending, some other company could come stroll along and take over Google's turf, completely ignores the underlying reality.
    People don't talk on two phones at once, they only use one search engine regularly and they even only use one browser to surf the internet.
    That bottleneck leads to market capture due to inevitable logical reasons, not because I say so.
    If you want autonomous states, each one has to control their own infrastructure. Just don't forget to question your assumptions.
    WarmWash · 1790433800 · focus · HN ↗
    Ad blocking is what cements googles place.
    But try telling the internet that their "morally pure" addiction to skirting compensation is actually what is killing (killed?) the web.
    Every competitor dies in the cradle because 40% of the internet won't pay them while using their service.
    Youtube with ad-blocking is the best video service on the internet, and no one can touch that.

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