Thread

Ollaya – Ollama for open-source, Jev-style decision models

618 points · 145 comments · Ardakilic

ranyume · 1790362510 · focus · HN ↗
>Run decision models locally.
>example is a text classification task instead of a decision
1. cobanov · 1790363139 · focus · HN ↗
  Fair point, that example is basically classification. I'll change it to something that looks more like a real decision.
2. OgAstorga · 1790363701 · focus · HN ↗
  text classification is equivalente to decision. This is exactly the same thing Jev does.
  1. abirch · 1790363939 · focus · HN ↗
    Jev does it more efficiently because it doesn't use an LLM <a href="https://typesafe.ai/blog/introducing-system-one-models-and-jev" rel="nofollow">https://typesafe.ai/blog/introducing-system-one-models-and-j...
    rockinghigh · 1790367139 · focus · HN ↗
    Their marketing language is misleading. They must still use some transformer language model backbone to encode the text input (BERT or decoder-only LLM). The biggest difference is the output, instead of auto-regressively generating tokens, they produce probabilities over a bounded set of decisions (more flexible classification).
    [deleted] · 1790367603 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
  2. ricardobeat · 1790364099 · focus · HN ↗
    It is not. In a benchmark with actual decisions - navigation, traffic, waypoints - laya does only slightly better than a small classifier.
    cobanov · 1790364516 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
  3. ranyume · 1790364121 · focus · HN ↗
    If it has four legs, a tail and barks why not call it a dog?
    gchamonlive · 1790364625 · focus · HN ↗
    Because this specific dog only barks in structured text
    seemaze · 1790367629 · focus · HN ↗
    This dog only barks when given biscuits
3. hbrn · 1790364166 · focus · HN ↗
  "Decision model" is just marketing jargon.
  decision model = classifier
  system one model = small non-reasoning LLM
  noul = boolean
  confidence = f(probabilities)
  It's sad to see how gullible engineers are today.
  1. verdverm · 1790369004 · focus · HN ↗
    > how gullible ... today
    that laya is even a thing is further evidence, people took that author at face value, the paper contents are incomplete and describe something that does not sound like Jev at all
    this was the period of arxiv history that led to the new vouching system, laya author contributed to that imo
    hbrn · 1790370966 · focus · HN ↗
    My understanding is that Laya (or whatever it was called in 2025) was yet another fine-tuned classifier, not a general purpose one.
    That said, Typesafe false marketing caused Laya to fit perfectly into pretty much every advantage that they are claiming: "system one decision model", cheap, fast, no hallucinations, structured, confidence output, parallel, calibrated. Their BS is their own demise.
    I think Laya's author genuinely bought their BS and thinks he built the same thing. Unlike Typesafe, I don't think he's intentionally misleading people.
    The only unique thing about Jev is that it's a general purpose classifier. Funny enough, they were so busy spreading marketing bullshit that they forgot to mention the only real thing that makes Jev unique.
    verdverm · 1790371198 · focus · HN ↗
    Laya author is spitting more BS than Typesafe, the (incomplete) papers are nothing like Jev, they use RAG and azure hosted services for calculating embeddings, with an orchestrator. Jev is just a model, Laya was put together after Jev, almost certainly based on what the author learned from Typesafe, and then backported "his" idea
    I suspect most people only read the blog post, and thought it was great how a VC company "stole" an idea and was "outdone" by a rando... without actually checking the facts. Confirmational reading bias, we live in a post-truth world with dysfunction media ecosystem
    hbrn · 1790372659 · focus · HN ↗
    I think you're right about Laya (and confirmation bias).
    But like you said, at the end of the day he's just a rando.
    He's not asking for $40m, not saying "I made ChatGPT, but i hate it, so I built the next big thing". Not claiming to co-invent RLHF.
    Laya is just noise. Jev's bullshit affects me today - I see people injecting it into the codebases where it has no place.
    verdverm · 1790372856 · focus · HN ↗
    > He's not asking for $40m
    Just how to "make fkn $500k ARR fast?"
    <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49674396">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49674396
    too much LI/Xitter influencer consumption
    hbrn · 1790373820 · focus · HN ↗
    That's really funny, nice find.
    To be fair, he's just asking how to get customers. And the post is 2 days before Jev's launch date? I don't think he's trying to sell Laya there (though he probably will at this point).
    verdverm · 1790374463 · focus · HN ↗
    There's something to be gleaned from the sum of their output across GitHub, arxiv, reddit, and HN (didn't delve LI, I hear it's a hot mess)
    cgio · 1790378604 · focus · HN ↗
    If anything, that makes Jev look even less impressive. They may just be hiding their similar quality outputs behind good PR.
    verdverm · 1790381536 · focus · HN ↗
    Laya is nowhere close to Jev in the 3rd party benchmarks I've seen, rather Laya is among the lowest scoring of the scores of Jev-alikes
    example ranking shared in comment on this HN post
    <a href="https://benchmarkheaven.com/jev-models" rel="nofollow">https://benchmarkheaven.com/jev-models
    cgio · 1790382378 · focus · HN ↗
    That is not related to the ad hominem above, or bear to the claim of innovation. Just comparing them implies they are similar. Implementation quality, training data etc. are all optimisations. I have not seen a compelling argument Jev is different, maybe one that it’s better. I don’t have huge insights in the domain, so open to learning or changing opinion.
    verdverm · 1790431332 · focus · HN ↗
    Jev is just a trained model afawk., the (incomplete) papers the Laya author uses to claim they had the idea first describe RAG systems, orchestrators, and related built on LLM APIs. Laya came out after Jev and appears to be vibe coded to look more like Jev, then the claim of "idea theft" was made with the new blog post and code base, pointing back to papers that describe nothing like Jev.
    Stepping back from Laya, there are dozens of Jev-a-likes now, most built on LLMs, whereas it is speculated that Jev likely uses transformers, but is not LLM like by generating a token at a time. Most likely they are reaching into the logits to get the details and assembling the json object deterministically. This is what the various LLM spins are doing, which is probably close but not the same as Typesafe.
    This is the main PR (merged) for using DiffusionGemma (diffusion generally) for Jev-a-likeness in vLLM. <a href="https://github.com/vllm-project/vllm/pull/57250" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/vllm-project/vllm/pull/57250
    chrchr · 1790405925 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't think people even read the blog post, because the blog post pretty clearly explains that Laya isn't really comparable to Jev.

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