Thread

1. Kim_Bruning · 1790344641 · focus · HN ↗

   So currently europe is exposed to russia-ukraine, us-iran, and shortly china-taiwan. This is not a great place to be in.

   1. sajithdilshan · 1790346355 · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

      1. bpodgursky · 1790346620 · focus · HN ↗

         Sorry this is a crazy interpretation of events.

         Europe has 15x the GDP of Russia. If they were "hell bent" on militarily defeating Russia, they could have made even tiny sacrifices to the social welfare system, diverted industrial production to military aid, and drowned Ukraine in help. That was a very achievable goal, and they didn't do it.

         Instead, the vacillated on importing US natural gas, continued shutting down nuclear power plants, and paid Russia MORE CASH FOR OIL than they ended up giving Ukraine in military aid! They did not in fact, dedicate themselves to this war in any way shape or form.

         1. sajithdilshan · 1790346993 · focus · HN ↗

            > If they were "hell bent" on militarily defeating Russia, they could have made even tiny sacrifices to the social welfare system, diverted industrial production to military aid, and drowned Ukraine in help

            Why do you think an entire continent with multiple and (sometimes even conflicting with each other) culture, priorities, national interest would do that? EU is an economic union. Not a federation like US

            1. HarHarVeryFunny · 1790353487 · focus · HN ↗

               Because NATO article 5 demands it.

               European support started out slow, but has ramped up as the US has backed away.

               Germany will spend 20% of it's federal budget on military in 2027, planning to increase that to 30% by 2030. "We cannot defend ourselves against Putin with a balanced budget".

               1. dns_snek · 1790355767 · focus · HN ↗

                  [delayed]

                  1. HarHarVeryFunny · 1790357112 · focus · HN ↗

                     The parent was talking about the disunity of Europe in standing up to Putin.

                     What would come next after Ukraine may be the Baltic states or Poland.

                     1. sajithdilshan · 1790362285 · focus · HN ↗

                        > What would come next after Ukraine may be the Baltic states or Poland.

                        According to your YouTube sources? NATO has nothing to do with Ukraine. NATO countries can defend themselves if one of those countries actually are being attacked. That happened in 9/11 and NATO countries supporting militarily the US wars that preceded.

                        They have no such obligation towards Ukraine.

                        1. HarHarVeryFunny · 1790365496 · focus · HN ↗

                           They have no NATO obligation towards Ukraine, but I'd say they do have a moral one, and they also have their own self-interest.

                           1. sajithdilshan · 1790413140 · focus · HN ↗

                              There is no such thing as moral obligation when it comes to politics and national interest. If it’s your country, then it’s your job to defend it or whatever. So far it doesn’t seem to be serving their self interest supporting an endless war.

                              1. HarHarVeryFunny · 1790445384 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Their self-interest is in keeping Putin at arms length and avoiding WW III. Putin is already threatening Lithuania, sending drones into Poland. If Putin wasn't prevented from taking Ukraine, do you really think it would end there?
                              2. CamperBob2 · 1790471426 · focus · HN ↗

                                 There is no such thing as moral obligation when it comes to politics and national interest.

                                 There is if you ever want to negotiate a nuclear arms-control deal again. None of this would be an issue if Ukraine had kept their nukes.

                                 1. bar8uyr · 1790519764 · focus · HN ↗

                                    They had that treaty that they kinda forgot about already..
               2. sajithdilshan · 1790355856 · focus · HN ↗

                  Ukraine is not a NATO member

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