Thread

1. boredatoms · 1790270522 · focus · HN ↗

   The US needs to get over this whole ‘punishment’ view of prison. It either a social-safety quarantine, or a rehabilitation

   1. mrits · 1790270740 · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

      1. Glemmlko · 1790271477 · focus · HN ↗

         No it shouldn't.

         It should be the understanding of a society that no human being is just 'bad'. A human being became 'bad' by a definiton of a society due to circumstances like upbringing, environment etc. and a society which failed you.

         Prison is the removal of you from society due to impatibility of current values and should help you become 'better'.

         Be happy that you had good/avg parents, the mental strength to help yourself, money, luck, body strength, whatever it was which allowed you to comment on HN instead of being in a prison.

         1. WalterBright · 1790271856 · focus · HN ↗

            > due to circumstances like upbringing, environment etc. and a society which failed you.

            It's always someone else's fault.

            1. Sparkle-san · 1790273961 · focus · HN ↗

               For a site populated by people that deal with complex technical systems on a daily basis, the idea that systems also exist and shape our outcomes in every day life seems to frequently be a foreign concept.

               1. WalterBright · 1790274994 · focus · HN ↗

                  My dad told me that the difference between men and animals is honor. And being honorable is something each of us can choose to be, or not to be.

                  Blaming society for one's own actions is dishonorable. You get to choose, and you are responsible for your choice.

                  1. scarecrowbob · 1790276285 · focus · HN ↗

                     Yet here you are, blaming your dad for your personal shortcomings in worldview.

                     1. WalterBright · 1790276676 · focus · HN ↗

                        I have many shortcomings. All of them are my fault.
                  2. 8note · 1790277022 · focus · HN ↗

                     leaving a bad or unequal society in place is similarly dishonourable. That is still a choice you make
                  3. Sparkle-san · 1790288706 · focus · HN ↗

                     That sounds like you were shaped by your upbringing. And honor itself is subjective and shaped by the social context it exists in. I don't believe killing to maintain honor is moral and there are millions of people out there who do because of the context they exist in. Likewise, I do not think it is honorable to make prisoners suffer (such as from excessive heat) when it's something in your control while others do because they were raised to believe that once you have wronged, your own worth as a human is diminished.

                     As humans, we have the capacity to hold multiple concepts like honor and contextual awareness at the same time when adjudicating a crime. Someone who stole to feed their family when they were in a dire situation should not be given the same sentence as someone who stole for personal gain. Our ability to acknowledge complex situations and deal with them also separates us from animals.

                     1. WalterBright · 1790369099 · focus · HN ↗

                        > Someone who stole to feed their family when they were in a dire situation

                        It's still wrong. Having a need does not entitle one to steal. Honor is not something you apply only when it doesn't cost you.

                        1. Timon3 · 1790431619 · focus · HN ↗

                           What is more dishonorable than letting other people starve, while you have a surplus of food?

                           It cannot be dishonorable to care for your loved ones. If circumstances leave few other options, stealing is an honorable act.

                           1. WalterBright · 1790466758 · focus · HN ↗

                              [dead]

                              1. Timon3 · 1790514413 · focus · HN ↗

                                 You might notice that I talked about more than the honor of the "victim".
                  4. Glemmlko · 1790288899 · focus · HN ↗

                     Trump doesn't have honor and is right now the most powerful person on the planet due to his access to the United States of Americas Military.

                     Society is not that easy and just because your father said something, doesn't make it true.

                     Honor is a concept and for sure a great character trait but if you don't get teached a concept like honor, you don't follow it.

                     1. WalterBright · 1790467138 · focus · HN ↗

                        I cannot think of a society that doesn't have a core value of honor.

                        > just because your father said something, doesn't make it true.

                        He had a pretty good track record. For example, his squadron trusted him with their lives.

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