Thread

Federal judge orders Texas to air condition all prisons by the end of 2029

120 points · 202 comments · bonefishgrill

QuercusMax · 1790267978 · focus · HN ↗
I don't understand why Texas voters support such inhumane conditions. All these "Christians" who support this kind of cruel punishment need to have a "come to Jesus" moment, literally.
1. sfiganio · 1790270145 · focus · HN ↗
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  1. NoMoreNicksLeft · 1790270529 · focus · HN ↗
    >People are cruel to prisoners because they enjoy being cruel to prisoners
    I don't enjoy being cruel to convicted criminals. I would much prefer they not commit crime, and that there be no need for the punishment.
    >especially given that free will is inconceivable;
    I too, have no free will in the matter. I am just a clockwork mechanism, operating as the random universe has not only ordained, but I cannot operate otherwise. Coincidentally, the nature of my mechanism makes me immune to your arguments, and no change in behavior is forthcoming. Fun, huh?
    >mass incarceration and poor prison conditions seem to increase crime
    Statistics say otherwise. Crime is down across the board the last few decades.
    >If we are to have prisons, let's be honest about why they exist: people like them.
    I agree. I like criminals being locked away from the rest of us.
    [deleted] · 1790270833 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    mschuster91 · 1790270997 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd like for conditions that lead to people not feeling the need to become criminals in the first place.
    Which means, housing first, end the war on drugs, provide access to mental and physical healthcare, provide a reasonable living minimum wage and some sort of UBI for those that fall through the cracks.
    0xDEAFBEAD · 1790274914 · focus · HN ↗
    Research shows that boosting income and medical coverage does not reduce crime.
    <a href="https://cityjournal.substack.com/p/does-poverty-cause-crime-not-so-fast" rel="nofollow">https://cityjournal.substack.com/p/does-poverty-cause-crime-...
    [deleted] · 1790281143 · focus · HN ↗
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    iAMkenough · 1790297321 · focus · HN ↗
    But Sam Altman, our AI savior, wants UBI. <a href="https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/basic-income">https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/basic-income
    NoMoreNicksLeft · 1790305666 · focus · HN ↗
    He's telling you that so you'll quiet down about the economic destruction even half-assed AI promises to wreak. But that same AI will end up powering the anti-personnel drones when you realize the UBI isn't coming.
    iAMkenough · 1790307834 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh, you didn't read the AI savior sarcasm. Or realize he's already back tracked on that.
    Anyone that's actually worked a day in their life knows it's all bullshit. Yet Texans keep being the gullible voters they are, giving Sam, Dario, Elon, Mark, and Trump's kids everything they want while their own communities suffer more and more.
    Andrew Yang is so upset with you right now.
    hsbalanxvxjsmab · 1790271097 · focus · HN ↗
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    macintux · 1790271528 · focus · HN ↗
    > I would much prefer they not commit crime, and that there be no need for the punishment.
    Because our justice system is notoriously good at convicting only people who actually committed a crime.
    Glemmlko · 1790271646 · focus · HN ↗
    Ah yes the what-aboutism statistics?
    So why is europe doing it different and overall better/cheaper? Because europe actually tries to help people
    sfiganio · 1790272162 · focus · HN ↗
    >I too, have no free will in the matter. I am just a clockwork mechanism, operating as the random universe has not only ordained, but I cannot operate otherwise. Coincidentally, the nature of my mechanism makes me immune to your arguments, and no change in behavior is forthcoming. Fun, huh?
    I don't understand what point you think you're proving. Yes, your actions were determined by the laws of physics based on factors outside your control. This implies that it is incoherent to condemn you as a person for an immoral action because you could not have behaved differently. It does not imply that your actions are good or that you should behave the way you do.
    I disagree with you and think you are being obstinate. You should change those things. But I don't think you should be caused to suffer, even though you are guilty of causing others to suffer.
    >Statistics say otherwise. Crime is down across the board the last few decades.
    Look at Figure 1 in this paper and tell me you see a correlation:
    <a href="https://vera-institute.files.svdcdn.com/production/downloads/publications/for-the-record-prison-paradox_02.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://vera-institute.files.svdcdn.com/production/downloads...
    Perhaps I overstated the case somewhat. The evidence is that mass incarceration in certain jurisdictions increases crime. But overall, the notion that mass incarceration is one of our best tools against crime is wrong. It is not very effective, very expensive, has deleterious effects on communities, and is cruel. And the notion that mass incarceration is an important tool is so thoroughly debunked by now that I think it's fair to call it an excuse.
  2. duplessitous · 1790271321 · focus · HN ↗
    This is an excuse for Christians behaving like animals by racing to the bottom, you consistently overstate how evil people are for reasons beyond me.
    > Take away the shame that normally keeps it in check and people's bloodlust rises to the surface
    Let me guess, the anti-christ is right around the corner, Peter.
    > It is a rare person who chooses to deny themselves pleasure on moral grounds
    No, it isn't. This person is average among us, they are rare among the elites and politicians. You don't need to paint others poorly because of your own self-image nor is it productive to do so
    sfiganio · 1790272667 · focus · HN ↗
    >This person is average among us
    It was average people who attacked My Lai, and only one pilot did anything to stop it.
    Most people do not usually want to do evil things and are usually repelled from doing them by feelings of shame or obligation. The moment the average person feels a desire for violence and will not be condemned for seeking it, they are as bloodthirsty as a serial killer. The constraints on people are emotional, not moral.
    duplessitous · 1790272825 · focus · HN ↗
    Thank you for your thoughts, Peter Thiel. Very even keeled
  3. r0m4n0 · 1790271944 · focus · HN ↗
    Just because something happens doesn't mean that its intentional. I think this is really a byproduct of having no one that stands up for the injustice. Who is the voice for people in prison? No one wants to take credit for family members that are there and the ones that get out usually struggle to get back on their feet let alone drive change in the system.
    I think another good example of this is through public infrastructure. Look at any poor neighborhood in a city and look how little public infrastructure is invested in those areas. Usually big busy roads with no sidewalks, crosswalks, etc. The city doesn't hate those areas, it's just that the people that live in those areas aren't effective (or unable) to lobby elected officials to invest. Also there is a little bit of a self fulfilling prophecy with lack of investment causing less businesses to want to invest, etc.
  4. anigbrowl · 1790272095 · focus · HN ↗
    Humans display a reduced set of consistent behavioral phenotypes in dyadic games <a href="https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600451" rel="nofollow">https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1600451
    ~30% of people are wired to feel others' suffering constitutes a 'win', even at cost to the themselves as long as they're suffering less than their counterparty. Add in selection effects and it's pretty clear such people could coentrate in particular industries.

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