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ASML currently sells no chipmaking machines in Europe, executive says

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Muximize · 1790426372 · focus · HN ↗
"During a gold rush, sell shovels."
ck2 · 1790426977 · focus · HN ↗
when China finally cracks EUV we might be able to afford PC parts again?
oddly cheering for this but I doubt it will end well
* <a href="https://www.reuters.com/world/china/how-china-built-its-manhattan-project-rival-west-ai-chips-2025-12-17/" rel="nofollow">https://www.reuters.com/world/china/how-china-built-its-manh...
1. comboy · 1790428711 · focus · HN ↗
  They are not cracking EUV, they are finding ways that actually scale. Chips can be much cheaper than they are currently. I mean yes, obviously we cannot be confident ntil it happens, but they are already making 5nm with DUV.
  When China leads chip making the rest of the world is just vasal states.
  1. Numerlor · 1790432757 · focus · HN ↗
    Going to higher densities with DUV needs high multi patterning which is very inefficient and ends up costing more than if they could do EUV with fewer patterns.
    It's well known tech that is used globally, just not to that degree as yield and throughput goes way down
  2. 52khz · 1790435161 · focus · HN ↗
    [dead]
2. vachina · 1790431333 · focus · HN ↗
  Yes it will not end well because Amurica will put a crater in the middle of the fab if it ever becomes viable.
  1. sho · 1790436423 · focus · HN ↗
    America will 100% not do that, unless they want matching craters in all of their fabs, or worse, in Taiwan’s.
    vachina · 1790439609 · focus · HN ↗
    Of course Amurica will not do it themselves, Amurica will outsource the job to someone else.
    ck2 · 1790451171 · focus · HN ↗
    lol China wouldn't bother bombing anyone
    they'd just tell all their export ships to turn around and stop all exports
    US would collapse in 30 days
    it would be like the blockade US is doing to Cuba except 90% of every product we use and they wouldn't have to fire a single shot
    they could also sell off the billions in US bonds and other assets
    US economy would be utterly destroyed, we'd never recover because even the middle-class would be living out of their cars (now dead because all the parts for them are made in China)
DataDaemon · 1790427002 · focus · HN ↗
Here in Europe we don't need chips and AI, prosecco, baguette and coffee are the most important
CurbStomper2 · 1790427630 · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
cracki · 1790428897 · focus · HN ↗
Oh, the EU economy is collapsing? I thought that was common knowledge.
1. dgellow · 1790429343 · focus · HN ↗
  No? If that’s common knowledge that’s a common lie. It’s not really growing much but there is no collapse occurring. And if you look more specifically at countries some are growing rapidly
  1. christkv · 1790429701 · focus · HN ↗
    If you don’t grow then you are shrinking as percentage of the worlds economy becoming more and more irrelevant.
    dgellow · 1790429958 · focus · HN ↗
    You’re defining collapse in a very unique way here
    christkv · 1790501864 · focus · HN ↗
    If you stagnate economically then you are shrinking. Inflation eats up the purchasing power and you get poorer. In a lot of European countries the purchasing power of the population has been decimated over the last 20 years. Only a few countries in the east are the exception.
    viraptor · 1790430464 · focus · HN ↗
    A lot of the "growth" is debt and money going in circles. We'll see how much of it actually stays around next year. So far the US already has to bail out the datacentre expansion by funding transmission lines upgrades instead of asking for money for it from the companies.
    Schiendelman · 1790431269 · focus · HN ↗
    Please cite comments like this. It's not helpful to the conversation to make highly opinionated statements.
    fn-mote · 1790431737 · focus · HN ↗
    Cite -> provide citations for
    Schiendelman · 1790610491 · focus · HN ↗
    Yeah, I have always used those interchangeably, do you feel like they're different?
    viraptor · 1790432015 · focus · HN ↗
    This is not opinionated. The financial circle between AI companies has been discussed lots of times already, it's everywhere you want to check. Grid funding is here <a href="https://www.energy.gov/articles/energy-department-announces-speed-power-investments-across-26-states-lower-electricity" rel="nofollow">https://www.energy.gov/articles/energy-department-announces-...
    Schiendelman · 1790610475 · focus · HN ↗
    Seller financing is not a financial circle. It's how you buy a car, sometimes a house. This is kind of like Trump derangement syndrome, except AI.
    mitxela · 1790433871 · focus · HN ↗
    What single source would satisfy you that the current US economy is a Ponzi scheme? I don't think it's really provable or falsifiable until long after the fact. We could start by pointing to the bond market or the price of gas?
    Schiendelman · 1790610510 · focus · HN ↗
    Once you go that far, you'll just decide all currency is a Ponzi scheme.
    password54321 · 1790437420 · focus · HN ↗
    You need to travel rather than just hearing about boogeyman stories online. Most of the world is relatively poor.
    73488448 · 1790438211 · focus · HN ↗
    Every time I visit a third world country it looks much better than ten years ago. In Europe it's the opposite. It's evolving backwards outside of the tourist hotspots.
    Rumple22Stilk · 1790441979 · focus · HN ↗
    This is because of globalisation. It's cheaper to use their labour. The alternative is the EU using its military might to oppress other nations.
    password54321 · 1790445209 · focus · HN ↗
    If you visited 3rd world you would realise how much you take for granted. But this is a random fresh account made to respond to this.
    christkv · 1790501727 · focus · HN ↗
    Lol you don't know anything about me or what I have seen of the world.
2. d2kx · 1790429689 · focus · HN ↗
  The rumours of our demise have been greatly exaggerated and will continue to do so.
3. cbg0 · 1790431294 · focus · HN ↗
  The $23 trillion economy "collapsing" is quite amusing.
4. libertine · 1790431769 · focus · HN ↗
  That sounds like information from cope propaganda.
europeenthusias · 1790429084 · focus · HN ↗
[dead]
1. dgellow · 1790429249 · focus · HN ↗
  You could have done without the racist remark
Betelbuddy · 1790430165 · focus · HN ↗
ASML machines are not allowed in Europe, they dont come with the plastic caps attached...
jgalt212 · 1790430685 · focus · HN ↗
The European Commission strikes again!
sublimefire · 1790431965 · focus · HN ↗
Misleading article, they are selling to corporations already who in turn have plans to create a few fabs in Europe. So it is maybe more about European companies who are not buying, but that rests on difficult capital availability and fragmented nature of the continent. Europe is not one country after all, someone wants a fab in Germany, but the why is it not in France or Sweeden.
shevy-java · 1790432481 · focus · HN ↗
The EU needs to stop acting as if all is fine. The EU commission is totally useless, from A to Z. There is zero strategy in play here. They need to take a much more pro-active stance - fining US companies that work against europeans is fine, but you also need to have viable alternatives. And that simply is not happening right now.
1. bar8uyr · 1790520549 · focus · HN ↗
  US companies are to blame and history will remember that.
Tade0 · 1790433190 · focus · HN ↗
The automotive industry or, should I say, Volkswagen isn't interested in state-of-the-art chips, so the fabs won't be built - simple.
Europe will keep making manufacturing equipment, but leave the actual production to those who have the grid capacity and capital.
whatever1 · 1790433445 · focus · HN ↗
It’s ok we will get cheap chips from Taiwan without having to invest a single dime once the bubble bursts.
We will keep working on philosophy, theory and arts. Let the rest of the world get their hands dirty building things.
1. SR2Z · 1790436226 · focus · HN ↗
  Philosophy, theory, and arts are so intertwined with technology that a nation which does not build cannot be expected to remain at the forefront of those three.
2. conmod278 · 1790445018 · focus · HN ↗
  In thermodynamics, through cycles of expansion and compression, useful work can be extracted. Similarly through economic cycles, America is able to extract wealth from rest of globe.
sva_ · 1790433956 · focus · HN ↗
more discussion from yesterday <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49844663">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49844663
1. dang · 1790459059 · focus · HN ↗
  Comments moved to <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49844663">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49844663.
gib444 · 1790433977 · focus · HN ↗
[delayed]
lousken · 1790456294 · focus · HN ↗
export of the best machines should be banned before europe builds its own chip manufacturing and supply chain
1. janderson215 · 1790460074 · focus · HN ↗
  How well have you thought this through? I have a lot of questions if they went this route.
  Why are there no buyers as it is? Doing this would force lower margins for ASML, effectively knee-capping a Crown Jewel of European technology and business. Do you think the EU should subsidize those losses?
2. 0xDEAFBEAD · 1790463354 · focus · HN ↗
  [delayed]
3. blitzar · 1790492570 · focus · HN ↗
  the nvidia / china ban worked out great for stopping them from developing ai ...

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