Cars that are designed from the ground up to be EVs tend to be much better than trying to shoehorn an EV into an ICE design.
The new Lexus ES350e, which comes in both hybrid and EV flavors, has been pretty universally panned as a mediocre EV [1]. Lexus anticipates that the vast majority of ES sales will be for the hybrid model, and I expect the same will be true of the Corolla.
The updated bZ and new bZ Woodland on the other hand, which are built as ground-up EVs on the e-TNGA platform, actually seem pretty decent. And I'm hopeful for the upcoming EV Highlander, too (although that will use a modified version of the TNGA-K platform).
I would prefer if Toyota just released a new EV model with roughly the same proportions as the Corolla, instead of going with the one-size-fits-all approach. But maybe they'll finally be able to get it right this time.
I agree that it's much better to design an EV to be an EV from the ground up. The reality is, however, that consumers don't want EVs for a myriad of reasons and prefer hybrids. And developing two completely different platforms is too expensive even for a higly profitable company like Toyota.
Consumers don't want an expensive EV. Now that EVs are becoming cheaper than ICE vehicles, they will take over the market because they are the better product.
New EV from Renault and Fiat are below 25K Euro in Europe without subsidies. They are still more expensive than similar sized gasoline cars with manual gear shift, but the difference is small and will pays off in few years.
Gasoline is expensive at the moment because of the Iran war. But as soon as that's done the price of gas will fall markedly and people will forget all about EVs.
EV in China with a reasonable range is already cheaper to manufacture and to buy. Inevitable the same will happen in Europe in the next couple of years. Given the massive improvements in charging infrastructure I do not see why EV would be a default option.
No it's not. If you live in a flat where are you going to charge the thing? Around here there's almost no charging points and the ones that are there are constantly occupied.
I gladly don't own a car but if I did it would be an ICE for sure.
That sounds like a solvable problem given a short amount of time.
Two things will likely solve it:
1. There's isn't a fixed number of chargers in the world. Eventually the majority of commercial car parking space will have a charging point because they're getting cheaper and it's an easy value add.
2. Charging is getting ever faster and range is growing. 800v platforms are probably the next obvious step but after that something else will come along.
Imagine an EV with 1000 mile range that charges in 5 minutes and costs less than half what the average ICE car does now. It's far fetched but it's not so far fetched.
There are no such improvements on the way for ICE technology.
Electrification is happening right now in the rest of the world and it can't be stopped because it's better technology.
I doubt it will happen in the short term. The number of chargers isn't really the problem, the energy distribution network is, and that is only increasing with faster chargers.
But I don't want a cheaper car anyway, I want better public transport.
Norway is super rich because of oil money though. Easy to do the right thing for the environment when you are loaded with cash. And most of it gained through fossil fuel exploitation.
In the netherlands it's much harder to upgrade the distribution network, right now in many places it's not even possible anymore to build new housing because the network is full and it will take at least a decade to fix it.
It's not really if you factor in the upgrade of the distribution network. This is what Holland is struggling against (also a result of a really bad decision of 15 years ago on not investing in its upgrade).
Charging infrastructure for flats is expensive at $4k per parking lot, but the charging infrastructure lasts longer than the car, meaning that the primary problem has nothing to do with money and more to do with the fact that it's an all or nothing proposition where everyone has to get on board simultaneously.
That doesn't count the distribution network for actually getting that energy there. This is the main problem right now. Right now in Holland even people wanting to build a house are blocked because the energy networks are full.
And it's not the only country with that issue.
And charging infra doesn't last longer than the car, standards are still changing a lot, and getting faster charge modes that put more burden on distribution nets.
I mean..that's a problem, but apartment-dwellers are around 20% of Americans, and disproportionately the ones who don't need a car at all, and it's not a problem at all apartments.
Does the ICE marketshare only drop to 10-20%? I feel like that could be describes as "it's over".
BYD already sells cars that cost less than $10,000 with a 5 star NCAP rating. And there are even cheaper Chinese EVs costing less than $6000 (OK, they're deathtraps but for some people that doesn't matter). And they're not junk either. They work and cut a few corners here an there. Good enough for a lot of price-conscious buyers.
Most importantly: they have LFP batteries which last much longer than Li-ion ones in addition to being safer.
This is true, but there other drawbacks. The charging infrastructure may not be there and the electrical grid may not be able to handle the load. Consumers know this and are therefore steering clear of EVs.
I've predicted long ago that EVs will eventually be (much) cheaper than ICE cars since they're much simpler. An EV is basically a battery, an electric motor, four wheels and a steering wheel. ICE cars are incredibly complex. It's just that manufacturers had over 140 years of experience in making them reliable, safe and easy to own and drive.
Even if they become cheaper governments may dissuade consumers from buying them for fear of overloading the electrical grid.
lol, this is complete nonsense. The average person has non idea how the electricity grid works or how much capacity it has. "The grid will collapse" is just FUD spread by the oil industry and parroted by the boomers who run electricity companies.
Even in a city like Bombay, with a famously unplanned electric grid, people are buying electric scooters not because the government told them to, but because it's cheaper. Bombay has yet to have this "overload" that so many here seem to fear.
freetime2 · · focus · HN ↗
The new Lexus ES350e, which comes in both hybrid and EV flavors, has been pretty universally panned as a mediocre EV [1]. Lexus anticipates that the vast majority of ES sales will be for the hybrid model, and I expect the same will be true of the Corolla.
The updated bZ and new bZ Woodland on the other hand, which are built as ground-up EVs on the e-TNGA platform, actually seem pretty decent. And I'm hopeful for the upcoming EV Highlander, too (although that will use a modified version of the TNGA-K platform).
I would prefer if Toyota just released a new EV model with roughly the same proportions as the Corolla, instead of going with the one-size-fits-all approach. But maybe they'll finally be able to get it right this time.
[1] <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ97R1nhq4M" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ97R1nhq4M
hn_submit · · focus · HN ↗
xbmcuser · · focus · HN ↗
java-man · · focus · HN ↗
fpoling · · focus · HN ↗
hn_submit · · focus · HN ↗
fpoling · · focus · HN ↗
wolvoleo · · focus · HN ↗
I gladly don't own a car but if I did it would be an ICE for sure.
Lio · · focus · HN ↗
Two things will likely solve it:
1. There's isn't a fixed number of chargers in the world. Eventually the majority of commercial car parking space will have a charging point because they're getting cheaper and it's an easy value add.
2. Charging is getting ever faster and range is growing. 800v platforms are probably the next obvious step but after that something else will come along.
Imagine an EV with 1000 mile range that charges in 5 minutes and costs less than half what the average ICE car does now. It's far fetched but it's not so far fetched.
There are no such improvements on the way for ICE technology.
Electrification is happening right now in the rest of the world and it can't be stopped because it's better technology.
pitkali · · focus · HN ↗
speedgoose · · focus · HN ↗
Lio · · focus · HN ↗
On street charging is being installed in most countries as we speak.
wolvoleo · · focus · HN ↗
But I don't want a cheaper car anyway, I want better public transport.
bpt3 · · focus · HN ↗
That's fine, but you're a small minority in most of the world. People want on-demand transportation.
speedgoose · · focus · HN ↗
Not a problem since a decade in Oslo. We have chargers. It’s cheap and relatively easy to install.
wolvoleo · · focus · HN ↗
In the netherlands it's much harder to upgrade the distribution network, right now in many places it's not even possible anymore to build new housing because the network is full and it will take at least a decade to fix it.
speedgoose · · focus · HN ↗
wolvoleo · · focus · HN ↗
imtringued · · focus · HN ↗
wolvoleo · · focus · HN ↗
And it's not the only country with that issue.
And charging infra doesn't last longer than the car, standards are still changing a lot, and getting faster charge modes that put more burden on distribution nets.
lkbm · · focus · HN ↗
Does the ICE marketshare only drop to 10-20%? I feel like that could be describes as "it's over".
wolvoleo · · focus · HN ↗
hn_submit · · focus · HN ↗
Most importantly: they have LFP batteries which last much longer than Li-ion ones in addition to being safer.
hn_submit · · focus · HN ↗
I've predicted long ago that EVs will eventually be (much) cheaper than ICE cars since they're much simpler. An EV is basically a battery, an electric motor, four wheels and a steering wheel. ICE cars are incredibly complex. It's just that manufacturers had over 140 years of experience in making them reliable, safe and easy to own and drive.
Even if they become cheaper governments may dissuade consumers from buying them for fear of overloading the electrical grid.
eldaisfish · · focus · HN ↗
Even in a city like Bombay, with a famously unplanned electric grid, people are buying electric scooters not because the government told them to, but because it's cheaper. Bombay has yet to have this "overload" that so many here seem to fear.