Thread

1. dinkblam · 1790244801 · focus · HN ↗

   it is sad how the lobbying of old evil industries like tobacco and animal-killing can convince the politicians and the public to outlaw and demonize their less-evil competition like vaping and lab-grown meat to make sure to hold on to the status quo.

   but why write more than 7000 words to communicate a simple point (lab-grown meat was promised 1-2 decades ago but failed to arrive and won't arrive in the foreseeable future)?

   1. cpursley · 1790245614 · focus · HN ↗

      Is it just pure lobbying or perhaps also consumer preference? Because there’s plenty of money to be made across the entire agriculture and food and production spectrum in the processing of the goop that goes into these types of products. I think a lot of people honestly would rather eat a real vegetarian diet (Indian, etc) than the ultra processed soy beans and various chemical binders wearing a meat Halloween costume.

      1. sevenzero · 1790246207 · focus · HN ↗

         [dead]

         1. anthonj · 1790246543 · focus · HN ↗

            Not that simple, about 5% of the world population has G6PD deficiency and can get sick or die from a diet based on many kind of beans.

            I would consider a vegetarian diet, but I can't eat lentils, hummus and beans every day without getting sick (ant my case is quite mild)

            1. sevenzero · 1790246693 · focus · HN ↗

               So they could just buy supplements and other vegetables?

               1. probably_wrong · 1790247466 · focus · HN ↗

                  "Just" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

                  Eating is something one does several times a day every day of their lives. It must be done regardless of how broke or in how much of a hurry you are. I applaud anyone who chooses to add this stress to their daily lives voluntarily till the end of their days, but I'm not going to demonize someone for choosing to reject the time-intensive thing in favor of an alternative that's completely normal, cheaper, and faster.

                  1. sevenzero · 1790253408 · focus · HN ↗

                     I wouldn't have an issue with consuming meat if people wouldn't neglect how wrong the state of the industry is at scale. Eating meat might have been normal throughout humanity, but the industry scale meat production is everything but normal. Its ruining peoples health, normalizes the atrocities happening in farms on a daily basis and generally treats animals horribly. If you eat meat at least do it with a consciousness.
      2. Cpoll · 1790247782 · focus · HN ↗

         > the ultra processed soy beans and various chemical binders wearing a meat Halloween costume.

         This reads like propaganda. Take tofurkey for example, it's just seitan and tofu and the same "chemical binders" you'll see in every other product in the freezer aisle.

         And tofu is only as "ultra-processed" as cheese or bread is.

         1. [deleted] · 1790248924 · focus · HN ↗

            [deleted]

         2. cpursley · 1790249272 · focus · HN ↗

            Yeah, tofu is not even in the same class as the synthetic burgers. Take a second and go read their ingredient lists. I’m gonna go with the Indian or falafel meal, which happens to be delicious. Which I think is the choice consumers are making.

            1. Cpoll · 1790286823 · focus · HN ↗

               I assume you're talking about Impossible Burger and its ilk. Stuff like methylcellulose (non-digestible fiber) and L-Tryptophan (present in meat and eggs, added here to supplement nutrition) sound scary, but they're everywhere as boring nutritional additives.

               The only odd one is soy leghemoglobin, which comes from soybeans but mimics meat hemoglobin. It's just part of the legume, though.

               The only troubling thing on the ingredients list is how much oil they put into it, but you can make the same complaint with 70/30 meat burgers. The macros are bad, but most burgers are.

               I hope you use fresh turmeric for your Indian meal, because the powdered stuff is sometimes adulterated with lead oxide.

   2. Brendinooo · 1790246296 · focus · HN ↗

      It doesn't seem like there's this finished product ready to go that's just cost-prohibitive because of malicious regulation.

      So at this point it's not even clear that anyone is actually losing their grip on the status quo...

   3. jareklupinski · 1790249272 · focus · HN ↗

      you've never purchased something, then had someone question that purchase? the reflex to defend yourself, even knowing an action is morally wrong, is very strong, and we need to find a better way to help these people divest without losing "face"

      1. chneu · 1790259088 · focus · HN ↗

         We need to raise people to stop blaming others and just accept responsibility for our actions.

         Plenty of folks can take criticism.

         1. jareklupinski · 1790285444 · focus · HN ↗

            none of them seem to be shareholders :(
      2. folocitoan · 1790285592 · focus · HN ↗

         People love to judge others, and people hate being judged. But it's possible to stop looking down on people, while I don't think it's possible to stop feeling bad when people look down on you. The solution is stop judging people, not to tell people to toughen up.

         Just as a matter of what's more effective, even aside from the fact that judging people is inherently wrong.

   4. sceptic123 · 1790256753 · focus · HN ↗

      > less-evil competition like vaping

      You mean the e-waste generating companies that actively target children with their highly addictive products?

      1. nazgulsenpai · 1790275076 · focus · HN ↗

         Maybe disposable vapes, but I've had the same refillable mod for a few years now. The "puff" counter is stuck at 99999. No waste except for the plastic bottle I buy the liquid in that lasts about 6 months.

         1. raffraffraff · 1790337534 · focus · HN ↗

            Based on my local park, people like you are the exception. Recently I've been picking up the rechargeable ones with digital displays to tell you how full the battery is. I have dozens of them. I stopped collecting them because I have enough to build lots of little projects. It is so fucking wasteful.

            1. nazgulsenpai · 1790351137 · focus · HN ↗

               I guess you can't stop people from being wasteful, but a device intended for continuous use is still much better from an environmental perspective than one made to be disposable.

               Thanks for the anecdote though, that is interesting.

   5. lofaszvanitt · 1790290550 · focus · HN ↗

      It could turn into evil quite fast. Just imagine that average joes are forbidden to keep pigs, poultry and the like. Instead you have to buy a zillion dollar lab that creates artificial meat for you.... and pay license fees.

      1. thriving_earthw · 1790294210 · focus · HN ↗

         You mean no more raising tens of millions of pigs and billions of chickens in intense confinement?

         Don't threaten me with a good time!

         1. lofaszvanitt · 1790306927 · focus · HN ↗

            Yeah, imagine AI, but for your food. How tasty, right?

            Eternal dependence, and applauding the way they destroy your humanity down to the very last cell. Go on, applaud it.

            1. thriving_earthw · 1790362473 · focus · HN ↗

               Rational compassion being perhaps a distinctively human trait, needless animal slaughter and suffering is far more ruinous to my humanity.

               Also the small farmers you are romanticizing hardly exist anymore precisely because of the returns to scale that lead large resource efficient factory farms to dominate.

               1. lofaszvanitt · 1790387979 · focus · HN ↗

                  Yeah, you are partially right, but you still have the option to keep and raise animals.. That's freedom. When the artificial meat starts to take over it will be the death knell of the livestock industry and part of your freedom.

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