Thread

28% of job postings on company career sites have been open over 90 days

302 points · 364 comments · rubatrejo

Aurornis · 1790183094 · focus · HN ↗
This statistic constantly confuses people who haven't done hiring.
If we decide we're going to grow headcount by 10 senior software engineers, we don't copy and paste the same job listing 10 times. We leave it open and collect resumes through that. At a large or fast growing company, we might never stop interviewing and hiring senior software engineers. The listing stays open for a year or more.
There are also specialty roles where hiring takes months. I've had niche roles open where we didn't get any applicants with any experience on the topic for over 90 days on multiple occasions.
1. alightsoul · 1790183192 · focus · HN ↗
  So you should apply to old job postings? Consensus in LATAM seems to be, they just forgot to take them down and they already have someone or in Latin America if you repost the same opening over and over the consensus seems to be the company is toxic they have a turnover problem, maybe you should say outright you're looking for 10 people
  1. Aurornis · 1790183493 · focus · HN ↗
    Some common sense goes a long way. If the job listing is from a company with 10,000 people, you can assume that they're always hiring. Submit away.
    If the listing is generic like "senior software engineer" and all of the requirements are generic like being able to program or do teamwork, it's probably a generic listing.
    Applying anyway is a safe bet, but I wouldn't invest as much energy into tailoring your resume if it's a 6 month old posting from a 50 person company with a website that looks like it's from 2009. That company probably forgot to take the listing down.
    > maybe you should say outright you're looking for 10 people
    This wouldn't help because you have no way of knowing if they've already hired 9 people or 1 person.
    The target can also change constantly. At a large enough company you continuously lose people for natural reasons, like retirement, moving for a spouse, moving to be closer to family. Past a tipping point you're just always hiring.
    oejxiwjxjwjd · 1790184145 · focus · HN ↗
    > you can assume that they're always hiring.
    You can, but you’re probably wrong and are wasting your time and effort going through lord knows how many hoops to submit a simple CV.
    Were submissions as simple as “here’s my CV, contact me if you like what you see”, then this wouldn’t be a problem. But when you have to sign up to the millionth HR service with the same 50 “please input the info that’s already on the resume you’re submitting” steps over and over again just to never hear back from the company or get rejected 6 months later, “submit away” is not an acceptable answer.
    > This wouldn't help because you have no way of knowing if they've already hired 9 people or 1 person.
    Yes, it would. Even if only 1 of the 10 spots is available, it still is a valid listing. Not knowing if the listing is valid at all is way worse.
    Asking for “common sense” only works if the situation you are in makes sense to begin with. Job listings are a cesspit of bad behaviour, dark patterns, disrespectful processes and incongruous offers.
    What we need is some sort of regulation on how job listings are posted and how candidates can and should apply.
    While we’re at it, it should be utterly ILLEGAL and absolutely liable to have a job listing up with no salary range or a salary range that’s too wide to give a sense of what compensation looks like—lying about it should trigger serious legal consequences as well.
    It’s about time candidates were treated with some dignity.
    alt227 · 1790184285 · focus · HN ↗
    This kind of attitude is why some people cant find jobs. Meanwhile the ones who just emailed their cv and didnt overthink it are happily working.
    oejxiwjxjwjd · 1790184555 · focus · HN ↗
    What kind of attitude? Wanting employers to respect my goddamned time? Wanting to know how much employers are willing to pay for my services?
    Yeah. I want a job listing to actively tell me how much I stand to gain in exchange for my time and skills. How absolutely entitled of me. Imagine that? A potential employee wanting to know upfront how much their time is worth in the eyes of a potential employer? Nonsense! You get what you get and you don’t get upset.
    If that’s your line of reasoning then I can only assume you’re exactly the type of employer that indulges in such practices.
    SoftTalker · 1790185432 · focus · HN ↗
    Good luck on your job hunt.
    oejxiwjxjwjd · 1790185610 · focus · HN ↗
    Very kind of you good stranger. I’m not job hunting at the moment but I appreciate the support!
    alt227 · 1790185665 · focus · HN ↗
    The UK is currently passing laws to make every job listing include salary:
    <a href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7gg2zdexo" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg7gg2zdexo
    oejxiwjxjwjd · 1790185745 · focus · HN ↗
    That’s a good start.
    jambalaya8 · 1790218112 · focus · HN ↗
    It would be nice if they passed a law to also make every job listing represent an actual job opening at the actual company (or their representative). There are too many postings that are all about "collecting people", forming candidate algorithms, tracking applicants, and mining. It is really grotesque.
    Avicebron · 1790185105 · focus · HN ↗
    This is not helpful and untrue, if you've tried to apply for jobs within the laat ~6+ years you will know it's screaming into the void. New accounts for the N+ glassdoor/indeed/bamboo/handshake/yougettheidea clones. Poorly pulling information from an uploaded resume, requiring manually editing or adding the info _every_ time. If your dilligent/dumb you writing a cover letter for each one (no AI the signal is too bad), then you submit it and wait an arbitrary amount of time for the rejection. There is a good reason people are complaining, it's asinine to put this on jpb seekers.
    alt227 · 1790185509 · focus · HN ↗
    > if you've tried to apply for jobs within the laat ~6+ years you will know it's screaming into the void
    I have applied for, and got, 3 jobs in the last 8 years. So yeah I think I am allowed an opinion on it without people telling me Im wrong.
    oejxiwjxjwjd · 1790185716 · focus · HN ↗
    Two things can be true. I’ve applied to a few jobs in the last few years and got a few of them as well. Does not mean that the hoops I had to jump through were any less demeaning, disrespectful or downright stupid.
    legitster · 1790189822 · focus · HN ↗
    If OP is a hiring manager, they're on the other side of the job market right now. It can be true that managers have no problems getting jobs and the rest of us do.
    pacija · 1790194790 · focus · HN ↗
    It is even weirder in my case. I am not applying for any jobs, recruiters reach out to me. After exchanging plesantries with HR ladies at video calls they ask me what are my salary expectations. I explain them there are two options. For full time employment I expect them to give me their best offer for me to consider. For consulting I expect them to give me exact goals so I can give them exact quote. I mostly never hear back from them, in rare cases they say their technical colleagues reviewed my resume and decided I am not appropriate candidate. I suspect most of them are just mining data about salary expectations.
    platevoltage · 1790192100 · focus · HN ↗
    Nobody is allowed to do anything without someone telling them they're wrong.
    [deleted] · 1790210190 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    ghostly_s · 1790199068 · focus · HN ↗
    Three jobs in 8 years? Seems like a red flag, we want to hire someone who will stick around.[1]
    1. (Actual feedback I got in an interview two weeks ago, for a position no sane person would want to stay in for longer than two years.)
    alt227 · 1790259875 · focus · HN ↗
    Fair enough, dont hire me. There are thousands of jobs out there.
    tayo42 · 1790194191 · focus · HN ↗
    Greenhouse saves your info and auto fills it. Companied that use Ashby are pretty much upload your resume. Only workday sucks or other random small ones that show up.
    ghostly_s · 1790199266 · focus · HN ↗
    Workday is the only one of these I’ve heard of or encountered in the US.
    tayo42 · 1790200667 · focus · HN ↗
    Probably because workday sucks so much that you notice it.
    yuye · 1790195376 · focus · HN ↗
    >then you submit it and wait an arbitrary amount of time for the rejection
    You get rejections? When I was jobhunting, half of the companies I applied to never replied to me.
    LoganDark · 1790189214 · focus · HN ↗
    Two times I posted in the "Who wants to be hired?" HN thread in the past few years, I had a job within the month. Both times, I did not even have any resume or CV at all. But this year, I've been posting there for over 6 months and nothing. Not sure if attitude is such a big factor -- the job market kinda does what it does. You do make a mistake by not putting yourself out there though, because then there's basically no chance that an opportunity will come your way. One comment in an HN thread could be your ticket, or you could be applying to thousands of listings for months and getting nothing but the occasional rejection (though of course, never nearly as many as you made applications).
    johnnyanmac · 1790189802 · focus · HN ↗
    >the ones who just emailed their cv and didnt overthink it are happily working.
    Tell that to the last 3 years of new grads.
    ghostly_s · 1790195336 · focus · HN ↗
    "Just email your cv" is literally impossible at many employers today. the app process is absolutely far more onerous for the applicant than it was a generation ago. For a bit of silver lining, I have noticed the "auto-populate from my resume" feature actually works reasonably well on some sites, which was not the case just a couple years ago when I was last looking.
    ikr678 · 1790207636 · focus · HN ↗
    Also, in some orgs you physically cannot send the cv.
    I can't send or recieve documents as email attachments anymore to external stakeholders, everything must be via sharepoint link.
    That, plus a decade of compulsory anti phishing training means no half competent HR person should be blind opening an attachment that says 'CV'.
    Telaneo · 1790196150 · focus · HN ↗
    I don't know a single person who's got a job by just emailing their CV. In fact, it reads as asinine as the idea that you can get a job by just showing up in person with a good handshake.
    ikr678 · 1790207378 · focus · HN ↗
    Taking time off your existing role to do multiple interviews for something that turns out to pay 10-15% less than you are currently on is insulting.
    red-iron-pine · 1790271206 · focus · HN ↗
    how are you getting to multiple interviews without having a concrete-ish idea of what the pay will be?
    literally the first thing I talk about with recruiters during an initial phone screen.
    yeah okay there may be a ~5-10k, maybe even a little more, bit of wiggle-room but if I can't make a reasonable guess where I'll land why would I even consider interview #2 when I already have an existing role?

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