Thread

1. phkahler · 1790170056 · focus · HN ↗

   Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?

   IoT is not for me.

   1. cryptoegorophy · 1790171488 · focus · HN ↗

      Similar to when printer stops printing black when color is gone.

      1. Grombobulous · 1790172418 · focus · HN ↗

         I have never understood the negative controversy around this.

         I expect the printer to use whatever inks it has on hand to print in the best quality it can.

         The use of ink is an inevitability.

         It always struck me as one of those things analogous to “I don’t understand why my car needs oil when I already put gas in it.”

         Just give the machine the stuff it requires to operate.

         1. Ensorceled · 1790172621 · focus · HN ↗

            This is disingenuous; a car needs both gas and oil to run. A printer should only need black ink to print black and white documents.

            1. Grombobulous · 1790173815 · focus · HN ↗

               That’s what you think, though, you didn’t design the printer. I assume you don’t have a background in color theory or chemistry or whatever else you need to produce ink.

               For all you know, the black ink isn’t really a perfect black and the color inks are used in conjunction with the black ink.

               I also think a lot of people are just being cheap about it. It’s just not a big deal.

               In my experience a color inkjet printer makes a much better print than a black and white laser printer. If you are willing to sacrifice print quality then buy a black and white laser printer.

               1. Ensorceled · 1790177459 · focus · HN ↗

                  > That’s what you think, though, you didn’t design the printer. I assume you don’t have a background in color theory or chemistry or whatever else you need to produce ink.

                  Do you?

                  Monotone printers are a thing and have been since the 60's.

                  1. Grombobulous · 1790178031 · focus · HN ↗

                     I agree, monotone printers are available technology, and monotone printers have worse output quality than a color inkjet printer.

                     If you want a monotone printer, buy one. I just have a little bit of confusion around the situation where people who bought color inkjet printers aren’t willing to put color ink in the printer.

                     1. hamburglar · 1790179681 · focus · HN ↗

                        You’re aware, aren’t you, that a color inkjet that only squirts ink out of the black cartridge is, technically speaking, a black and white inkjet printer? A color inkjet is literally a superset of a black and white one.

                        1. Grombobulous · 1790183002 · focus · HN ↗

                           You think there is zero chance that the ink formulation differs between a color printer versus a black and white printer?

                           I’m pretty sure the reasoning for color ink cartridges relying on both sets of cartridges is that the “black” cartridge is no longer perfectly black in that configuration.

                           1. AngryData · 1790185348 · focus · HN ↗

                              Ive seen older inkjets share inks cartridges between color and black and white only models. And the only reason you don't see that commonly nnow is because people who use primarily black prints bought laser printers now which are chwaper than in the past.

                              1. [deleted] · 1790210607 · focus · HN ↗

                                 [deleted]

                           2. hamburglar · 1790275015 · focus · HN ↗

                              Obviously there is that chance. But just as obviously, someone who just wants to print their homework is almost always way more concerned with their printer “working” than they are with it printing “perfectly black” ink.

                              1. Grombobulous · 1790343201 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Again, this goes back to “someone who is doing critical time-sensitive work must have supplies on hand.”

                                 Anyone who runs out of color ink presumably could run out of black ink or run out of paper, too, because they weren’t keeping necessary supplies on hand.

                                 So really the only cognitive adjustment they need to make is to tell themselves “this printer requires two cartridges to operate” rather than making a blind assumption that it will work with just one.

                                 I would be surprised if this wasn’t already disclosed in the user manual as well.

                                 The psychological justifications don’t matter. This is how the machine works. If you don’t want that machine then you buy a different printer.

                                 1. hamburglar · 1790661373 · focus · HN ↗

                                    I think the general complaint is that the machine doesn’t need to work that way, and a lot of people buy them not understanding that they work that way, because almost nobody wants them to work that way, and that the only reason for them to work that way is to unnecessarily sell ink that people wouldn’t actually need if it weren’t for this artificial constraint. Ergo, upset consumers that are angry at their printer manufacturers for making a user hostile decision.

                                    Your steadfast refusal to acknowledge this obvious point makes me wonder whether you work in the hp inkjet division designing ways to piss off customers. I suspect you understand it quite well, though, and are just enjoying being a contrarian.

               2. hamburglar · 1790179332 · focus · HN ↗

                  You are bending over backwards to justify this user hostile practice. Most people wouldn’t choose to not print at all just because it “isn’t really a perfect black.” They’re just trying to get their homework printed.

                  I bought a color laser in 2004 and I’ve never replaced the C M or Y toner because I almost never print color. Miraculously, it is still happy to print “imperfect” black and white, which is exactly what I want.

                  1. Grombobulous · 1790183494 · focus · HN ↗

                     But now we are diving deep into personal preference. I personally never want to print stuff that comes out wrong and looks bad.

                     I think that this definition of “user-hostile” depends on a deliberate misinterpretation of the requirements of running the device.

                     If we just change our frame of reference to hold the expectation that “all ink supplies supplies must be sufficient for it to operate” it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

                     I dunno, maybe I just have an aversion to broken shit being in my house. Maybe you’re right, maybe it would be better to have some kind of “emergency” functionality for the times when I forget to refill ink. I also just keep spare ink cartridges so I’m never rushing out to buy another one. This is, to me, part of being a functioning adult.

                     I wouldn’t really allow the things I own to be broken or out of supplies if they’re things I rely on.

                     These are $30-50 ink cartridges, and many inkjet printers have cheaper refill supplies with the popularity of ink tank designs where you can refill them yourself including third party ink without the need to buy new ink cartridges.

                     There’s just so much outrage around this subject for no reason if you ask me. People barely print anymore anyway, I think it’s time we get over it.

                     1. AngryData · 1790185433 · focus · HN ↗

                        The solution to your issue is a warning about low ink and quality, not refusal to print at all.

                        1. [deleted] · 1790343545 · focus · HN ↗

                           [deleted]

                     2. hamburglar · 1790275098 · focus · HN ↗

                        Slightly suboptimal black ink coverage is not an “emergency” use case.
               3. IAmBroom · 1790194796 · focus · HN ↗

                  > I assume you don’t have a background in color theory or chemistry or whatever else you need to produce ink.

                  You don't, either.

                  Black ink is all that's required to print B&W documents. Period. No one designs a black ink to be supplemented by another color before it achieves "full blackness". That's literally the entire point of black ink.

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