Thread

1. legitster · 1790105097 · focus · HN ↗

   > It found the U.S. “failed in its obligation to do everything feasible to verify” that the school was a military objective and that the failure “went beyond mere negligence.” The report said the United States “directed the strikes at the building of the school while being aware of a substantial risk of striking a civilian object and acting recklessly as regards the possibility that this would happen.”

   Reading the details, "AI" doesn't really seem like the culprit -it's a scapegoat.

   The intelligence that it was no longer a military target never entered the target database, the team that was responsible for vetting the target list was gutted, and said team was never even consulted.

   The White House wanted 1000 targets and pulled from their database without any due diligence. Whether it was an AI call or an SQL query - this was from pure human maliciousness and incompetence.

   1. xlayn · 1790107269 · focus · HN ↗

      Now, ask yourself if you want AI taking decisions around your life... it will pull numbers... someone will have a "goal" of 1000 "hits" and there you go, 2-3 months in jail working to check what went wrong...

      But don't worry, the other P AI system will ensure that the first one doesn't do mistakes...

      1. 8note · 1790114124 · focus · HN ↗

         what makes ai special here? a person following an SOP that involves polling an incomplete dataset will have the same 2-3 months in jail

         1. iAMkenough · 1790118007 · focus · HN ↗

            Judicially, you can hold a person accountable for "accidentally" killing 100+ children easier than you can a technology system. The technology system will always be used as the scapegoat for the government's atrocities.

            I'm not sure why the "people make mistakes too" crowd can't seem to grasp this concept.

            1. bradleyjg · 1790122057 · focus · HN ↗

               Do you have three examples from 20 years in Afghanistan of analysts being held judicially accountable for target selection errors?

               1. iAMkenough · 1790122120 · focus · HN ↗

                  Seems like a weird goalpost.

                  Doesn't invalidate my point. I didn't say it was easy to hold a person accountable, just easier than a techonology system, whose owners point the finger back at government.

                  I think we both want to see justice for those 100+ innocent children murdered (as well as those innocent lives in Afghanistan and Iraq) by the U.S. Military's incompentence.

                  There were never "weapons of mass destruction," although Congress was mislead to believe there was.

                  In the Minab attack, Congress wasn't even given the option to authorize.

                  1. bradleyjg · 1790122316 · focus · HN ↗

                     You’re comparing the current system not to the status quo ante but to a utopian fantasy that only ever existed in your imagination.

                     That’s a weird goalpost.

                     1. iAMkenough · 1790124540 · focus · HN ↗

                        Sorry, I was taught good Americans don't murder people unjustly. I guess that is a utopian fantasy to think good Americans were serving our country.

                        So much for seeking justice for those who can't advocate for themselves. America kills the innocent is accepted fact, I guess. The ultimate pro-life society.

                        1. pessimizer · 1790132424 · focus · HN ↗

                           Do you believe every TV ad you see, too? If you do, do you think you should stand in judgement of people who don't?

                           Thinking everyone who doubts is a cynic is your problem, and you're continuing to execute on it. When the next liar rolls in and says they fixed everything, you'll be the first to run in bashing people saying "no, I don't think he did."

                           Do you not read? Do you not know anything about what America has done?

                           Your lecturing is not virtuous.

                           1. iAMkenough · 1790132962 · focus · HN ↗

                              Disprove this: America kills the innocent is accepted fact, I guess. The ultimate pro-life society.
                           2. iAMkenough · 1790133521 · focus · HN ↗

                              Killing kids overseas is the best way to end up with dead Americans. That's not virtuous, it's just common sense.

                              Without accountability and justice for those families that experienced unnecessary loss, they're coming for us to seek their own justice. Rightfully so.

                              Can you not take a second to put yourself in their shoes as a parent? If the tables were turned and Iran's government "accidentally" bombed an elementary school in the U.S., I feel like you would have a different opinion on justification for revenge.

                              In this instance on the very first day of strikes on Iran, the U.S. Military instigated future conflict by murdering hundreds of innocent children. Your children will pay the price in one way or another.

                              Actions have consequences. Trump and his installed sycophants in Congress and the SCOTUS reject that reality, but their constituents aren't as gullible as they banked on.

                              When they get their golden parachute, Presidential pardons, and taxpayer funded-protection, you are left holding the bag for bankrolling this atrocity.

                     2. iAMkenough · 1790132364 · focus · HN ↗

                        For the sake of argument, I'm also entertaining your idea of what happens after the U.S. spends 20+ years killing innocent family members overseas. And how that strategy has changed since the Iran conflict many years later?

                        An end to anti-American radicalism brought on by the repeated pattern of carelessly murdering children of pro-democracy parents in these regions and cutting international aid to other regions?

                        If it was my 12-year-old murdered by a "targeting error," I would dedicate my life to revenge.

                        1. Cyph0n · 1790137610 · focus · HN ↗

                           This is a war that is generally supported by both Republicans and Democrats - the latter mostly dissenting to the fact that it is being conducted without Congressional approval.

                           It is also a war that extends in part from the Gaza genocide, which as we know was overseen and backed by a Democratic administration.

                           In other words, this is a war enabled and sanctioned by our government collectively, and not a particular administration or party.

                           1. iAMkenough · 1790144352 · focus · HN ↗

                              Did representatives from the U.S. House and Sentate vote to authorize this?

                              No. You're full of shit. It's Trump's Executive Branch demanding quotas from the Pentagon that led to bad information being used to murder 100+ children.

                              Maybe if Republican and Democrat elected representatives had an oppportunity to authorize the Iran war, I would listen to you.

                              Respectfully, your argument is bullshit.

                              Produce voting records authorizing the war, or shut up.

                              1. nixon_why69 · 1790158370 · focus · HN ↗

                                 They haven't voted to stop it, either. We're way past 90 days, it's a choice for congress not to exercise their power.

                                 Schumer could be raising hell and disrupting everything in the senate in order to force a vote, it would be incredibly popular and define the midterms, but he's choosing not to.

                                 1. iAMkenough · 1790166877 · focus · HN ↗

                                    The U.S. House has, after bad polling more Republicans are turning on Trump leading up to the midterms.

                                    1. nixon_why69 · 1790168185 · focus · HN ↗

                                       Took them a few tries to even get there, and the senate hasn't even taken it up for consideration. Chuck Schumer wants this war, even though 60% of Americans and like 90% of democrats are against it. He just needs deniability to blame it on Trump.

                                       1. iAMkenough · 1790168420 · focus · HN ↗

                                          Chuck Schumer wants farmers to get socialist handouts, and is a little nervous about the size of those checks as his farmer friends triple their diesel expenses needed to operate.
                              2. Cyph0n · 1790203130 · focus · HN ↗

                                 Just came back to this. I am genuinely curious: were you expecting to start a discussion with such a disrespectful reply, or were you just ragebaiting?

                                 1. iAMkenough · 1790309277 · focus · HN ↗

                                    I'm genuienly curious if you want to give it the time. If not, I understand. Respect is earned, and I'm willing to listen.
                           2. AngryData · 1790193797 · focus · HN ↗

                              Unless congress votes on it this is an illegal war. There is no wiggle room here because Iran was not an imminate threat to the US and took no military actions against us.
                     3. 1718627440 · 1790180661 · focus · HN ↗

                        It's not, if the status quo ante was not deemed to be moral in the first place.

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