Thread

1. nbf_1995 · 1790086541 · focus · HN ↗

   It seems like it would be more effective to simply put all the solar panels in a field, and construct a cheap shade over the entire canal no? The supports in the picture are massive and don't look cheap. Also I would imagine the solar array uses more copper than a similar capacity array just built in a field. You can't daisy chain multiple miles of solar panels together, so you need an extra power line to run alongside the whole thing.

   Put the solar panels in a field: The solar array uses less copper. The shade supports don't have to hold up solar panels: Shade supports cost less.

   The best reasoning they give is that California has insane permitting requirements, and it takes 1/6 the time to build on developed land compared to undeveloped land.

   1. schnevets · 1790111056 · focus · HN ↗

      Anecdotally speaking, I have heard of a massive California solar farm in an undeveloped area that has serious vandalism problems. Junkies will find ways through the fencing at night, strip copper and other materials from panels, and cause thousands in damages and lost energy just to extract enough scrap for a fix.

      Nothing short of a face-to-face security response will deter these criminals, so there it is a challenging cost-benefit balance. At least panels in parking lots and other developed spaces have the benefit of witnesses. I'm sure a 20 foot climb up a steel beam over running water is a decent deterrent as well.

      1. swiftcoder · 1790149813 · focus · HN ↗

         > Junkies will find ways through the fencing at night, strip copper and other materials from panels, and cause thousands in damages and lost energy just to extract enough scrap for a fix

         I live in a European country, where the phone company hasn't bothered to come remove the old unused copper phone lines in the last 5 years. Thousands of dollars worth of cables running past my house alone, and no one has bothered to go strip it in the night and sell it

         This feels like one of those USA problems that would be better addressed by funding decent social services (free healthcare, cheap housing, addiction treatment programs, etc).

         1. Lio · 1790175668 · focus · HN ↗

            How much cable are we talking about here and can you go into more detail about where your house is located...?

            Joking aside, I'm not sure that metal thefts can totally be blamed on addiction.

            I used to work for a large British Telecoms company, that shall remain nameless. They regularly suffered from certain mobile sections of the community stealing metal.

            They would do things like hack phone cables from telephone polls, attach them to an SUV and attempt to rip them out of the ground, with varying levels of success.

            A week later the same people would break into a works yard in another part of the country after reels of fresh cable. The empty reel would usually be found in a field somewhere after they'd used petrol to burn the casing off.

            I don't think the people involved were doing it for want of housing, healthcare or addiction treatment, as we have all of that in the UK. They just saw it as a source of money.

            Once the law changed to make it a crime to buy scrap metal without a paper trail that cut that down massively.

            1. swiftcoder · 1790177193 · focus · HN ↗

               > Once the law changed to make it a crime to buy scrap metal without a paper trail that cut that down massively.

               Yeah, that seems like a pretty reasonable solution, all things considered

               1. SoftTalker · 1790181325 · focus · HN ↗

                  There are people who will give you that paper trail, for a price.

                  1. ninalanyon · 1790182214 · focus · HN ↗

                     Of course. But the fact that it has a price reduces the size of the market and hence the amount of theft.

                     1. SoftTalker · 1790183269 · focus · HN ↗

                        Catalytic converters can't be sold for scrap at all by individuals, yet theft is still a huge problem.

                        1. buellerbueller · 1790186629 · focus · HN ↗

                           Seems like the problem would be bigger, if they could be sold by individuals
                  2. Supermancho · 1790182431 · focus · HN ↗

                     related: Crosswalks don't stop cars from hitting pedestrians crossing on them. Perfect is the enemy of good.
                  3. nkrisc · 1790186738 · focus · HN ↗

                     And that is well into anti-social, intentional criminality territory, so you can have harsh punishment for those crimes and investigate and make examples of people if it remains a problem.

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