Thread

Far-left party wins Berlin election, pledging to nationalise housing

72 points · 152 comments · theanonymousone

soonnow · 1789971698 · focus · HN ↗
To add a b it of context. They do not want to confiscate housing. They do want to pay landlords, though below current (very high) rates. Also this would only apply to private real-estate companies not individual owners.
And they can't govern alone, so I think it's unlikely that this plan is actually implemented as originally planned. The likely coalition would contain 3 parties.
1. dirasieb · 1789972590 · focus · HN ↗
  >it's not confiscation, you're just forced to sell at a price i decide is fair
  sound logic
  1. 4gotunameagain · 1789972887 · focus · HN ↗
    The "free market" (which has been demonstrated to not be free at all) has no place in basic needs such as housing.
    Rent extraction is utterly counterproductive for a society.
    Housing should not be a commodity.
    WithinReason · 1789973154 · focus · HN ↗
    Who builds the houses then?
    mschuster91 · 1789973417 · focus · HN ↗
    Governments directly, cooperatives or non-profit organizations. The Churches used to be pretty active in that space as well to invest tithes, with rents paying for common-welfare projects.
    IshKebab · 1789973685 · focus · HN ↗
    Yeay communism! They built such lovely tower blocks.
    vrganj · 1789974451 · focus · HN ↗
    Yeah like that ugly drab city of ... Vienna??
    <a href="https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-social-housing-secret-how-vienna-became-the-worlds-most-livable-city" rel="nofollow">https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/10/the-soc...
    WithinReason · 1789982131 · focus · HN ↗
    That's more like social housing:
    > an income maximum for applicants of €57,600
    and can't be bought, only rented
    mschuster91 · 1789985001 · focus · HN ↗
    first of all, Europeans don't need American wages. 57k is comfortable middle class in Austria, especially if you have government subsidised housing.
    as for the "only rented" part, again, at this level of low rent it does not matter. you're better off renting. And Europeans have actual pension systems, we are nowhere near as reliant on real estate always appreciating in value.
    ImPleadThe5th · 1789973677 · focus · HN ↗
    Who builds all those bridges, roads, power plants, and other public works projects? Maybe them?
    Also government formed co-ops. Find people who want a flat and agree on rent before you build it. As the loan is paid off rent becomes substantially cheaper. The second best time to plant a tree is today.
    It also doesn't need to be the entire housing stock, just enough to help keep rent low (see Vienna).
    spankalee · 1789973591 · focus · HN ↗
    Housing should be a commodity. Commodities are fungible, plentiful, and easily tradable.
    Housing right now is the opposite of a commodity: it's a boutique investment for individuals whose price is propped up by regulations that artificially limit supply.
    repsilat · 1789974469 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes, the grandparent scored an own goal with their aside
    >> The "free market" (which has been demonstrated to not be free at all)
    The Berlin rental market suffers under strong government intervention, and would benefit from being much freer.
    4gotunameagain · 1789976232 · focus · HN ↗
    This is not true. Two more strong government interventions that would benefit the housing market:
    - Tax empty flats to death
    - Disallow corporate ownership of residential property
    4gotunameagain · 1789976358 · focus · HN ↗
    I do not think that housing should be broadly available for trade in global markets, in the typical definition of a commodity.
    That enables mass buyouts of housing from corporation which leads to rent extraction and a myriad of woes.
    spankalee · 1790040219 · focus · HN ↗
    The mass buyout of housing is by the masses: individuals own the _vast_ majority of housing, benefit from its scarcity and rising prices, and lobby for more restrictive zoning. Most rental property is owned by individuals too, so they're also the main rent extractors.
    It's not corporate lawyers who show up to protest new housing, it's retiree homeowners.
    tirant · 1789976434 · focus · HN ↗
    The only reason you enjoy cheap food is because of the free market.
    Housing in many countries is not part of a free market but part of a monopoly where the government decides how much, how many, the what and the when the houses can be built. If it was a real free market, the issue would have been long solved.
    4gotunameagain · 1789977421 · focus · HN ↗
    The only reason I enjoy cheap food is the industrialisation of agriculture and the subsequent increase in yields.
    P.s. the EU already decides how much, how many, what and when will be planted, through subsidising. And it's going quite well.
    derektank · 1789976791 · focus · HN ↗
    Surely, if we are decommodifying basic needs, our first priority should be food, not housing, right? How has nationalization of agriculture worked in the past?

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