Thread

Samsung is expected to more than double output of its HBM4 and HBM4E DRAM

562 points · 458 comments · giuliomagnifico

HarHarVeryFunny · 1789937583 · focus · HN ↗
On a related note, I was reading yesterday that apparently the real bottleneck for Chinese production of AI accelerators is HBM production, not processors or ASML equipment.
The lack of ASML EUV machines certainly hurts, and pushing DUV so hard results in abysmal yields of good chips, but you can compensate by running more wafers or making smaller chips, and the net result is that Huawei's Ascend production volume is limited by CXMT's HBM capacity not processor dies.
The problem is that HBM manufacture requires many steps (die thinning, via drilling, plating, alignment) where the equipment used by everyone else (Samsung, SK Hynix, Micron) is also blocked by sanctions, so the Chinese are having to develop all of this themselves too, which they have, but yields are currently low, even when using shorter HBM stacks.
1. jacquesm · 1789951954 · focus · HN ↗
  The only thing the West is achieving here is that sooner or later China will be able to compete on their own terms rather than ours. It may buy some time but the end result is very predictable.
  1. bigcat12345678 · 1789960301 · focus · HN ↗
    As other comments pointed out, that was always China's plan, the value here is really that when the Chinese overlord annillate the world's industrial competition, they'll have the moral high ground of being out of self-reliance and hostility by western monopolists.
    Edit:
    And, that, my fellow keyboard high-minded thinker but powerless corp peons, was also part of the China's plan all along.
    Woodi · 1789966954 · focus · HN ↗
    > [...] that was always China's plan, [...] they'll have the moral high ground
    It's a possibility. It is also possible that they will steal yesterday's technology and still pretend to have moral high ground.
    I do not wish China and Chinees wrong but most probably communism will work as it always do - by faking thing and bringing self-harm to their own citizens.
    mitxela · 1789981872 · focus · HN ↗
    In free markets, everyone steals everything they can, and stops everyone else stealing from them as much as they can. This is normal and expected. The ideology says that it will even out and converge to a fair situation.
    lazide · 1789994431 · focus · HN ↗
    It’s the same in communism/socialism except people are prevented from stopping everyone else from stealing their stuff, in the name of the ‘greater good’, and if they try to get more than everyone else get guilt tripped into giving it up under the ‘to everyone what they need, from everyone what they can’.
    Which incentivizes pretending you need a ton, and can give nothing. You think being useful at work in Capitalism is bad? Wait until you are accidentally useful in a communist/socialist economy.
    There is usually less pretending under capitalism, but people are people, so it all the same stories still play out.
    People are shitty, if given the chance and influenced in specific ways. Capitalism or not. We’re dealing with the current bullshit in the west because somehow people bought the line that everyone is a good person - and we totally can’t actually see or do anything if we see someone doing something bad! - and we need to always follow ‘the rules’ even when someone bad clearly isn’t.
    Until we find our balls, good luck.
    mitxela · 1790030029 · focus · HN ↗
    communism derangement syndrome - rent free (ironically)
    lazide · 1790032156 · focus · HN ↗
    Ask anyone who lived in the Soviet Union how that was like
    [deleted] · 1789998416 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]
    philipallstar · 1789998436 · focus · HN ↗
    > In free markets, everyone steals everything they can, and stops everyone else stealing from them as much as they can. This is normal and expected. The ideology says that it will even out and converge to a fair situation.
    This is all nonsense. Capitalism isn't an ideology, it's just a slight formalisation of what naturally arises. People are free to choose; they can own things; they can make agreements; they must honour the agreements or pay a penalty. Capitalism in no way is about stealing.
    andrekandre · 1790006862 · focus · HN ↗
    > Capitalism isn't an ideology
    your confusing trading/markets with capitalism; they aren’t the same thing, and it definitely has ideology(ies)
    <a href="https://www.britannica.com/money/capitalism" rel="nofollow">https://www.britannica.com/money/capitalism
    philipallstar · 1790208170 · focus · HN ↗
    Sorry, I'm not sure where in that link you're getting that from. Do you have a quote from there?
    hobo123 · 1789999904 · focus · HN ↗
    And by stealing you mean exchange? Or I somehow misunderstood what you consider a market to be - a place for pickpockets?
    theeyescanner · 1790012637 · focus · HN ↗
    Our LLMs were trained on the widespread theft of copyright content, with clearly defined and well tested law. But they made capitalists too much money so it became defacto legal.
    Next you'll be telling me fairy tales like "laws are real".
    mitxela · 1790029971 · focus · HN ↗
    If you're paying money for something you could get for free, you're a sucker. Ordinarily the person who is selling it makes sure you can't get it for free.

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.