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Canada welcomes EU proposal to become 'associate member'

284 points · 354 comments · witweb

  1. isodev · · focus · HN ↗
    Good. The EU is an economic and political union so facilitating trade and movement between political allies seems only natural.
    1. andy99 · · focus · HN ↗
      Yeah, I don’t understand why people have a problem with this. I think it should basically always be true between peer nations that there is free movement and trade.
      1. buellerbueller · · focus · HN ↗
        There are a lot of jingoists around who want to use that character trait to amass power/wealth, or to find an excuse for things in their life they don't like. Sometimes, their grievances might even be legitimate.
      2. 50or05 · · focus · HN ↗
        Japan, Australia, South Korea and few other democracies also should join-in for resilience against US and China
      3. TheSkyHasEyes · · focus · HN ↗
        > Yeah, I don’t understand why people have a problem with this.

        Some want to be ensured Canada's sovereignty isn't changed. As this as of right now is a news headline I get their point of view for now.

      4. ChrisRR · · focus · HN ↗
        Having been through years of brexit crap, I can tell you that the answer is racism, and the weaponisation of outrage by the media
        1. dijit · · focus · HN ↗
          Irony aside (now there's more people from the middle-east migrating to the UK- which if you're racist you tend to hate more than Polish/French/German/Swedes/Estonians)...

          I think a lot of people who argued for brexit did so mostly out of ignorance.

          "There are regulations on bananas, this makes things inefficient!" (forgetting that the regulations on bananas was about categorising them, not forbidding sale).

          They felt out of touch and disconnected from EU parliament, and it seemed complicated and scary. Ironically the reason it's so complicated is because it's a lot more democratic than our own systems- but instead of attempting to understand it they threw their hands up and thought "since I didn't vote for every person who works there, it must be undemocratic!"

          It's very true that there was an anti-migration sentiment inside brexit, but I wouldn't go nearly so far as to say that this was the only feeling people had.

          I'd say it's mostly feeling a loss of control, which they couldn't place and our politicians were not open enough about explaining that this loss of control of the population was caused by.... the politicians themselves.

          1. disgruntledphd2 · · focus · HN ↗
            > I'd say it's mostly feeling a loss of control, which they couldn't place and our politicians were not open enough about explaining that this loss of control of the population was caused by.... the politicians themselves.

            Yeah, the EU is essentially run by the national governments.

            However, they typically (and the UK were particularly bad here) use the EU as a scape-goat for unpopular decisions even when they'd agreed to them in Brussels.

            Understandable, but bad for Europe/EU in general.

          2. ChrisRR · · focus · HN ↗
            This is what I meant by weaponisation of outrage. The media got people so riled up about things that didn't really affect them so that they eventually felt like the EU didn't represent them.

            Fishing being the obvious example. I'd never seen many people care about fishing rights until it was suddenly a hot topic leading up to the vote, but suddenly people really cared about what was happening around the scottish coastline

      5. gwbas1c · · focus · HN ↗
        Are you referring to Trump? He's the kind of person who sees these kinds of things as eroding his power, thus threatening to him.
    2. mrtksn · · focus · HN ↗
      Apparently EU and Canada did well with the branding as this is entirely new concept that no one knows what it means but gives you warm and fuzzy feelings inside, isn't it?

      Anyway, I would love it if Canada joins the free movement zone and Schengen eventually however despite not knowing what is this "associate member" thing is sounds like a stretch. Imagine though, how cool would be to travel to between America and Europe without your passport, like a domestic flight.

      I'm really not fan of the trend to devide this rock in space into zones where you need a reason and permission based on that reason to travel. Can't be happier that there's a progress towards making the world a friendlier place.

      1. isodev · · focus · HN ↗
        Well the process has to start somewhere right? In politics (as in real life) words matter and what is being said today in these statements are the general outlines of how this relationship is going to move forward.
        1. brimwats · · focus · HN ↗
          seems like it'd be counterproductive to define it behind closed doors and then sell it to the respective parliaments
      2. danmaz74 · · focus · HN ↗
        Schengen looks like a stretch, considering the geographic situation, but free movement is achievable, if both want it.
        1. hylaride · · focus · HN ↗
          Schengen is pretty strict in that it's a full people/money/goods zone all together. It'd require Canada pretty much all going in on EU laws.

          Much more likely is looser employment visas and maybe allowing Canadians have an easier time moving for things like retirement, etc. I'm not holding my breath, though.

          1. danmaz74 · · focus · HN ↗
            This is pretty a common misconception. Schengen area only refers to the fact that there are no border checks between two countries which are in that area - it's just like an internal movement. This applies to anybody, so for example if a Canadian enters the Schengen area, they can move to any other country within that area without checks and without requiring an additional visa.

            What you're thinking about is the "single market" - which, even if the name could deceive, also applies to people, including the right to go work anywhere within the single market for citizens of single market countries. Which is what many brits always hated, as they wanted single market for services and goods, but not for people.

            Single market doesn't imply Schengen though - eg I as an EU citizen have the right to move to Ireland for work, but I still need to go through border checks as Ireland is outside of Schengen (because they have free movement with NI).

            1. memsom · · focus · HN ↗
              And the UK in general. I went to Dublin a few years back now, and I had my passport checked as I entered Ireland, but not before I got on the plane and not as I left not when I got back to Gatwick.. in fact I walked off the plane through the baggage claim and back out on to the airport and no one asked me for anything. I think if I'd travelled by ferry, I might not have needed a passport at all.
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