Thread

The Return of Sail Power: Cargo Ships Are Turning Back to the Wind

193 points · 136 comments · gumby

WalterBright · 1789614779 · focus · HN ↗
This seems to happen once every 20 years.
1. sien · 1789614958 · focus · HN ↗
  Yep. They alternate decades with the 'Airships are returning for cargo' groups.
  1. walrus01 · 1789615723 · focus · HN ↗
    To date, they've achieved a very high level of advancement in making a new airship that looks like a butt. Sir Mixalot would be proud.
    <a href="https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=airship+that+looks+like+a+butt" rel="nofollow">https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=airship+t...
    iAMkenough · 1789617143 · focus · HN ↗
    Soon we’ll need to provide proof-of-age just to look up at the sky.
    Cthulhu_ · 1789626753 · focus · HN ↗
    I feel like I've seen that same thing for 20, 30 years now, lol
    mrguyorama · 1789670762 · focus · HN ↗
    You have. That airship's maiden voyage was in 2012. The US DoD has pretty much never stopped throwing a few dollars at airship projects. They want them as long term air reconnaissance assets, but now satellites are competitive for that.
    Former Loring Air Force base in Limestone Maine has been the home of airship projects of various kinds since the 2000s. I got to see a few.
  2. lukeify · 1789617464 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd be down for a future of awesome looking ships and giant zeppelins gracing the sky.
    WalterBright · 1789625499 · focus · HN ↗
    I'd love to fly in a Zeppelin, too, but the problem is they are very vulnerable to the weather.
    ThrustVectoring · 1789627053 · focus · HN ↗
    AIUI the problem is the economics are pretty unfavorable for smaller-scale prototypes due to square-cube issues (drag and thus fuel costs is proportional to cross-sectional area, lift and thus cargo capacity is proportional to volume). You'd need a very big airship to get a competitive economic niche between sea and traditional air freight, where you're faster and more flexible than sea transport and cheaper than traditional air freight.
    Figs · 1789630084 · focus · HN ↗
    Hmm. Couldn't you put solar panels on top for power (and fly above the clouds) + use some sort of sail when wind is available? It might be really slow, but if you can get the systems to be fully autonomous (no people needed to pilot it) and need very little / no fuel... then couldn't it become a rather cheap way to ship things that aren't urgent?
    ThrustVectoring · 1789641729 · focus · HN ↗
    Solar panels don't have good enough power to weight ratios and aren't likely to contribute effectively.
    As far as sails go, you need a second medium to act as a keel, otherwise it's impossible to get a net push in any direction other than downwind.
    WalterBright · 1789693317 · focus · HN ↗
    One will quickly discover that when you're moving with the wind, any sail is going to sag empty.
    econ · 1789646612 · focus · HN ↗
    There is another niche if you make them several miles long and width. Then can use more conventional construction materials like a concrete shell. (We are of course not ready for that)
    foobarian · 1789676632 · focus · HN ↗
    In that case they should have those giant propellers that seem to spin at a few rotations per minute
    econ · 1789851855 · focus · HN ↗
    We should first build the floating cities. Some old ships welded together surrounded by styrofoam in nets with mud on top and Mangroves, lots of Mangroves... Neptune's park.
    WalterBright · 1789693603 · focus · HN ↗
    An airship made from concrete? Better off using Led for Zeppelins.
    SoftTalker · 1789668175 · focus · HN ↗
    Oh, the humanity!
  3. GolfPopper · 1789627080 · focus · HN ↗
    A very recent xkcd touched on this:
    <a href="https://xkcd.com/3298/" rel="nofollow">https://xkcd.com/3298/
2. mschuster91 · 1789630689 · focus · HN ↗
  About the same frequency the US starts a major war or oil prices skyrocket for someone else's war. 20-ish years ago was the Iraq 2 war. 20-ish years before that was Iraq 1. Now it's the unholy combination of Ukraine beating Russia's refineries and US/Israel striking Iran.
  And the higher oil prices go, the more people are interested in saving oil.
3. TeMPOraL · 1789641615 · focus · HN ↗
  You mean once every 20 months. I've seen this article several times already. I first learned about Flettners from one - fascinating devices, btw. - which is why I notice when it resurfaces again, every year or two.
4. divbzero · 1789674368 · focus · HN ↗
  There are some in actual use though, for example this rotor ship that has docked at the Port of Vancouver: <a href="https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/what-is-this-strange-ship-in-the-vancouver-harbour-10769444" rel="nofollow">https://www.nsnews.com/local-news/what-is-this-strange-ship-...

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