Thread

EU chief opens door for Canada to become 'associate member'

693 points · 905 comments · hackernj

karlkloss · 1789555974 · focus · HN ↗
Nearly 60% of EU LNG imports come from the USA. If Trump doesn't like Canada to cuddle with the EU, then it won't happen.
This is all a big pain in the back.
1. N_Lens · 1789556065 · focus · HN ↗
  Good thing EU is investing heavily in renewables then.
  1. altern8 · 1789556242 · focus · HN ↗
    Those wind turbines are destroying the scenery, though.
    ohyoutravel · 1789556574 · focus · HN ↗
    Exactly. I prefer seeing pumpjacks and hydrofracking equipment, just like all red blooded capitalists.
    altern8 · 1789557294 · focus · HN ↗
    I've never seen a pumpjack nor any hydrofracking equipment. I have seen a few capitalists but I can't be positive they were red-blooded ones (whatever that means).
    ohyoutravel · 1789569561 · focus · HN ↗
    The red blooded thing was tongue in cheek. Go visit California. Eat at In n Out. You may see a pumpjack next to the place you’re sitting enjoying your animal style fries. They’re pretty common. I don’t mind them really, but do find them to be equally / neutrally as a wind turbine in the area (also common sight in California), admittedly the wind turbine is sleeker and more modern, but the pumpjacks have more history.
    RugnirViking · 1789556884 · focus · HN ↗
    only if you're weird and think they dont look lovely?
    altern8 · 1789557200 · focus · HN ↗
    Why, do you like them?
    Solar panels are even worse. Here in Poland they're covering entire fields in the countryside, I have no idea why they don't build them on parking lots or on factory roofs.
    RugnirViking · 1789559100 · focus · HN ↗
    of course. Ive not met a person that doesn't like them, either. I love hiking and have travelled pretty wide across europe.
    Solar panels are similarly lovely to see. I'd just as rather see them than a uniform field of corn or maize or somesuch thing. I can't understand the mindset that objects to such things? is it just a straight up childish nimby "I don't want ANYTHING to be built" or would you prefer natural gas+coal power plants ? or any other built structures for that matter (I think they are better than concrete buildings etc - white tree-like things, thin with smooth curved surfaces)
    altern8 · 1789560260 · focus · HN ↗
    I mean... Different people have different opinions.
    I would prefer nuclear
    RugnirViking · 1789568408 · focus · HN ↗
    I'm sorry I came off a little hostile. I do find it hard to understand how people can be so opposed to such clearly necessary infrastructure on purely aesthetic grounds.
    bryanlarsen · 1789570696 · focus · HN ↗
    I know several people who think oil pump jacks are pretty but wind turbines are ugly. Myself, I did a bike tour of Denmark in 2006 partially to see the wind turbines...
    rireads · 1789624803 · focus · HN ↗
    Yikes
    desterothx · 1789559375 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes I have no problems with them looks-wise. They don't build them on parking lots/factory roofs because of efficiency. Good solar panels follow the sun, which isnt really a mechanism practical to setup in a parking lot. maintenance is also a lot easier if you have one field generating a gigawatt of power vs having to service 20 parking lots that generate a gigawatt of power. Also obviously the land itself is cheaper in the countryside. Renewables are operating on relatively thing margins profitability wise, so you really want to make the juice worth the squeeze (the main value being sovereignty from other countries as discussed in the thread)
    timbit42 · 1789753171 · focus · HN ↗
    I like solar panels and windmills because they bring a lot of freedom from oil, an unstable and sometimes scarce commodity, even if the solar and turbines are purchased from China.
    _ink_ · 1789558037 · focus · HN ↗
    Not as much as 4°C temperature increase will do.
  2. AlexandrB · 1789563223 · focus · HN ↗
    Canada has a proven, safe reactor technology[1] and Uranium to spare. This is a good synergy.
    [1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANDU_reactor" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANDU_reactor
2. fidotron · 1789556208 · focus · HN ↗
  The LNG won't come from Canada either. Trudeau notoriously said "there's no business case" for it, but the truth is they can't agree with how to actually get enough of it to the east coast to make a difference, and that's what blocks it. (In fairness the route does go through some very unique environments).
  Canadian provinces have a far bigger ability to screw things up for the whole than countries do inside the EU, and people remotely familiar with the EU will understand what a strong statement that is.
  1. jonapro · 1789556666 · focus · HN ↗
    If by screw things up you mean retain some level of governance then yes... Canada is a confederation, not a federation.
    post-it · 1789558450 · focus · HN ↗
    Canada is definitionally a federation.
  2. post-it · 1789558487 · focus · HN ↗
    Where there's a will, there's a way. There hasn't been a will until now.
    fidotron · 1789559654 · focus · HN ↗
    The only "way" involves greasing the palms of every special interest group in the way until they have successfully accounted for the whole potential revenue of the intended enterprise, and that's what blocked everything repeatedly.
    I'm in Quebec and very familiar with the exact territory this has applied to wrt getting resources out on the east coast, and unless someone was willing to rule by decree to bypass all those entrenched groups it's not happening, and we all know why such decrees would not happen as well.
    post-it · 1789563929 · focus · HN ↗
    They'll ship it out of Churchill. The only special interest groups are Indigenous and they rarely successfully hold up projects that are actually important.
  3. llm_nerd · 1789646573 · focus · HN ↗
    > Trudeau notoriously said "there's no business case" for it
    LNG was at all time low prices at the time, and Canada has an integrated NG pipeline system with the US, and the US has enormous amounts of export capacity as they just repurposed import terminals into export terminals, whereas for Canada it would be a greenfield project. Trudeau and his government caused a lot of harm for Canada, and a lost decade to platitudes and feel good save-the-world nonsense, but his statement was absolutely correct, and it was only "notorious" among partisans who see wrong in everything the "other team" does or says.
    I mean, much of that natural gas that the US exports to Europe came from Canada, through that integrated "we're friends and allies" network.
    There wasn't a case for it, because the US wasn't a criminal idiocracy at the time and we had an integrated system.
    I mean, now we're talking about just building our own pipeline system because it has come to that, but at the time Trudeau was absolutely correct. You don't build a tens of billions of dollars terminal just in case a country goes rogue.
3. hengistbury · 1789557727 · focus · HN ↗
  Petro-states are destroying their trust as they try desperately to cling on to the power fossil fuels have given them. Thankfully this makes renewables even more attractive than just their lower cost.
4. llm_nerd · 1789646916 · focus · HN ↗
  > If Trump doesn't like Canada to cuddle with the EU, then it won't happen.
  The US is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. It has barely any friends in the world, and its economy is on perilously shaky grounds. Crybaby Bessent is desperately trying to scare the bond market, but a run for the exits and the US will be fucked.
  Yeah, Trump is totally just going to cut them off, bro. The fossil fuel companies, that basically run your government, will totally be cool with that too, because they love not making money and accelerating the transition off of their wares.
  American delusions are amazing stuff. As a Canadian it has been astonishing seeing Americans constantly think they have the upper hand in everything (if they sell you something, well then you have the upper hand, but also if you sell them something, well then you have the upper hand, and....) and then getting frantic and crazed when it turns out...other people have "hands" as well. Eventually it all turns over to "yeah well we'll invade you!" because that's all you really have: A third world life expectancy and a social idiocracy, but yay you have a trillion dollar military!

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