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TSMC revealing details about next gen A14 node

129 points · 56 comments · osnium123

  1. aurareturn · · focus · HN ↗
    Chip density increase is slowing down. Since N10, density scaling has been 60-80%. N3 to N2 is only 20%. And now N2 to A14 is also only 20%.
    1. georgeburdell · · focus · HN ↗
      A lot of that is the lack of SRAM scaling. There’s still quite a bit of improvements in the back end (metal traces). That aside, if foundries adopted say a 1T-1C SRAM we’d see a pretty rapid density doubling
      1. smallmancontrov · · focus · HN ↗
        Is 1T1C SRAM a technological thing or does it mean "persuade designers to use DRAM in the many cases where the retention contract could be timeboxed with a bit of extra thought and cross-team haggling"?
      2. the8472 · · focus · HN ↗
        MRAM is 1T, non-volatile and supposedly has nanosecond-scale write times so it naively seems like it'd be an ideal SRAM replacement. But I guess shrinking MTJ is more difficult than other components or there are some other limitations.
        1. georgeburdell · · focus · HN ↗
          MRAM is more like 100ns, but yeah Intel actually offers this as part of their 16nm foundry process
      3. tliltocatl · · focus · HN ↗
        > 1T-1C SRAM

        Aka eDRAM? It was a thing back on 14nm node, but AFAIR not so much anymore. The 1C part is hard to get right in a way that is compatible with a logic process.

        1. to11mtm · · focus · HN ↗
          It gets confusing...

          eDRAM isn't the same as 1T-SRAM, which isn't quite the same as 1T-1C SRAM...

          But overall they run into the same problems that you mention; it's just too hard to get a capacitor in play.

          There is Zeno Semi's Bi-SRAM, buuuut it hasn't seemed to catch on for one reason or another.

          1. tliltocatl · · focus · HN ↗
            > Bi-SRAM

            Looks cool, but isn't it by definition planar process-only, no FinFET for you?

            1. to11mtm · · focus · HN ↗
              I'll admit I am not well versed on this subject on any measure, but there is this [0] paper indicating FinFET is doable, although IDK if there's any sort of hand-waving or other limitations involved.

              [0] - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ieeexplore.ieee.org&#x2F;document&#x2F;8614555" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ieeexplore.ieee.org&#x2F;document&#x2F;8614555

      4. HarHarVeryFunny · · focus · HN ↗
        The reality is often going to be much worse than TSMC&#x27;s N2 -&gt; A14 &quot;mixed design&quot; 20% density increase marketing spin.

        Apparently the N2 -&gt; A14 density increase for logic is 23% (Tom&#x27;s Hardware), and about 0% for both SRAM and analog.

        Both CPUs and GPUs devote considerable space to SRAM (registers &amp; cache), and are 50% or less logic, so for them the density increase will be more like 10% rather than TSMC&#x27;s 20% marketing number.

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