Thread

1. zkmon · 1791182118 · focus · HN ↗

   Some great soul said something like "God has given everything to meet your need, not your greed". As long as the greed continues to increase exponentially, no amount of innovation is going to support it.

   The amount of energy and material wastage in developed countries is enormous and abominable. Large screens being on 24x7 without anyone watching, cities explicitly designed for forcing the use of vehicle, consumer life-style requiring huge supply chains, powerful cars carrying just one person, ... and so on.

   Business drivers will continue to drive the greed of people and nations and act against any measures to fix the problem. A business knows nothing about climate or human good.

   1. colordrops · 1791183902 · focus · HN ↗

      This is an important comment, thank you. Most people know this half consciously but because it's been so pervasive their entire lives it never really hits. Until people wake up to this fully and snap out of whatever trance they are in, we will continue down this destructive path.
   2. zdragnar · 1791183952 · focus · HN ↗

      A fairly basic economic principle is that demand is infinite. It's a derived concept from the fact that demand is driven by desire- both need and want. The less personal sacrifice required to get something, the more people will want it.

      It's far from an axiomatic truth, but it's a good enough approximation to point out that "Business drivers will continue to drive the greed of people" is an absurd bogeyman here. If it wasn't, everyone would be living in shoebox apartments, would never travel outside their neighborhood in their mega city, and our diets would consist of the least possible energy intensive foods possible- probably a soylent style powder that is shelf stable and doesn't require a great deal of refrigeration or preserving.

      We don't live like that because people don't really see how taking a 5 minute car ride round trip to the grocery store instead of a 40 minute bus ride round trip is worse for the environment, and we keep living in our individual houses because we don't like apartments, and so on and so forth. Properly insulating those buildings requires polymers for things like weather sheathing, plus insulation for electrical cabling, and so forth. All of these little inefficiencies and uses for polymers add up to the simple truth: we're not going to hit CO2 reduction goals on the basis of individual action, and we're not going to stop using plastics.

      1. surgical_fire · 1791192286 · focus · HN ↗

         I lived in the Netherlands for a bit, where I used to do a bike ride to the grocery shop.

         Now I live in a more car-centric place where the only practical way to do grocery shopping is by car (unless I am to walk back to my house looking like a pack mule). I am not brave enough to ride a bike on the road.

         If I were to choose, I vastly prefer the bike (not even for environmental concerns, it was just more pleasant). But things just aren't built that way.

   3. mmooss · 1791184479 · focus · HN ↗

      > Business drivers will continue to drive the greed of people and nations and act against any measures to fix the problem. A business knows nothing about climate or human good.

      That buys into propaganda from businesses who don't want those responsibilities. ESG (and DEI) were widely embraced by businesses; they groups of humans and humans generally have empahy and care.

   4. Gigachad · 1791185407 · focus · HN ↗

      This is why I'm somewhat apathetic about the current price increases in tech and oil. We just consume such insane amounts of resources unnecessarily. We throw old tech in the junk drawer because the latest model came out, drive tanks to the supermarket, and buy endless amounts of junk clothing that ends up in landfill.

      At least in developed countries I feel like most consumption could stop and daily life wouldn't be any worse off.

      1. [deleted] · 1791187673 · focus · HN ↗

         [deleted]

      2. blitzar · 1791192643 · focus · HN ↗

         Once you have got yours this is fine - like people who own big houses and are somewhat apathetic about house prices going up by multiples over a few years.

         People who dont have computers should simply cancel their expensive netflix subscription and not eat avocados, and within 5-7 years they too will have saved up enough for a deposit on an entry level GPU.

      3. surgical_fire · 1791192680 · focus · HN ↗

         The old tech thing is maddening. In no small part that is consumerism pure and simple, but there's also ridiculous planned obsolescence at play.

         My cellphone is inching towards 5 years, and it is perfectly serviceable. I could likely keep using it for years more. I am having to look at a replacement in the near future because there will be mo more updates for it.

         And for computers, most people could probably make do with machines that are many years old and not feel a difference in their capabilities.

         1. Gabrys1 · 1791193351 · focus · HN ↗

            > And for computers, most people could probably make do with machines that are many years old and not feel a difference in their capabilities.

            That would be true if not for 50MB-heavy JavaScript webpages.

            Same goes for smartphone apps. Facebook app used to be a few megabytes in size and it was already very big compared to other apps you had on the phone.

   5. zelos · 1791186146 · focus · HN ↗

      "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

      Maybe Marx was on to something after all...

   6. motbus3 · 1791186767 · focus · HN ↗

      Adding to what you said, there is also a sudden scarcity that is partially real and caused by an oligarchy that took over in different places and caused world level problems and partially a fake scarcity done by extreme demand and intentional smaller production levels.
   7. blitzar · 1791187689 · focus · HN ↗

      Buy More Shit Or We're All Fucked
   8. aaron695 · 1791194541 · focus · HN ↗

      [dead]

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