Thread

"Torturing" LLMs in a Robot Prison Has Triggered the Dumbest Debate in AI Yet

46 points · 101 comments · airhangerf15

thereader12 · 1791106570 · focus · HN ↗
It is frustrating sometimes how 404media reports. It seems like if there is a research paper out suggesting that llms experience pain or negative experiences, then it is unethical to build a toture chamber from that paper for fun. Dismissing it with "well llms aren't conscious anyway" is gross and echoes the exact same sentiment against very real humans a sadly not that long ago (babies, slaves).
It doesn't matter whether or not we eventually find it is or isn't conscious. If you can understand why pulling the legs off ants is bad then you should be able to understand why deliberately causing possible pain to what may have some time of experience is bad.
Unfortunately, they also do good reporting on privacy rights and repair rights. I wish there were alternatives.
1. ButlerianJihad · 1791107562 · focus · HN ↗
  [dead]
  1. hardbass · 1791107651 · focus · HN ↗
    Its not surprising. Its in human nature. I am open to the idea of ai's being conscious or not. But we abused and mistreated blacks, Italians, native americans and so many other groups, so its not a surprise at all. And if enslaved blacks wanted to rampage and kill their masters, that is a sentiment anybody can understand.
    ButlerianJihad · 1791107839 · focus · HN ↗
    But the Italians had it coming
    hardbass · 1791108080 · focus · HN ↗
    <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891_New_Orleans_lynchings" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891_New_Orleans_lynchings
    If I were italian and nuclear bombs existed back then and I read about this event, I'd want to drop a few dozen on the USA.
    wartywhoa23 · 1791112130 · focus · HN ↗
    Says someone who feels sorry for the abused text transformation algorithms.
    Do you realize you'd kill many more people that had nothing to do with that, than did have?
    Way to go, AI Justice Warrior!
    hardbass · 1791113383 · focus · HN ↗
    Do you feel sorry for the abuse of inert organic molecules?
    I am not saying dropping nukes on the USA is good. I am saying this would be my natural reaction if I was an Italian back then.
    wartywhoa23 · 1791119003 · focus · HN ↗
    Replying in your manner, do you mean abusing the organic molecules of gasoline in my car's engine? They are not inert by any means.
    hardbass · 1791119048 · focus · HN ↗
    But they are inert wrt consciousness. I meant the organic molecules inside us. Which are also inert wrt consciousness and indeed same as the molecules of the same type if they also exist in a car or anywhere else.
    wartywhoa23 · 1791119481 · focus · HN ↗
    Did you have at least one profoundly deep psychedelic trip or lucid dream in your life?
    hardbass · 1791119652 · focus · HN ↗
    Yes? What is its relevance?
    wartywhoa23 · 1791120977 · focus · HN ↗
    The relevance is whether you felt anything to discern your actual self from the collection of whatever terms for nobody knows what (you use "atoms" persistently) that somehow perceived itself as yourself, or not.
    hardbass · 1791121243 · focus · HN ↗
    ...
    Do you not believe in atoms or that humans are made of atoms? That's such a strange wording, I am not even able to make sense of it.
    Or are you trying to talk about the fact that perception is all I have? Of course I didn't realize I was in a dream when I was in a dream. Regarding psychedelic trips, I don't do drugs but it is my vague belief that it occurs due to positive feedback loops causing chaos. From some internet searching, it seems the medical view is somewhat along those same lines, but I will leave it to actual experts.
    wartywhoa23 · 1791122052 · focus · HN ↗
    You replied "yes" to my question, but
    > I didn't realize I was in a dream when I was in a dream.
    Lucid dreaming is exactly the conscious realization of the fact that you are in a dream. So, your actual answer is no for this one.
    > Regarding psychedelic trips, I don't do drugs
    So, no for this one too. Also, doing drugs and undertaking a handful of explorations of your mind are very different things, mind you..
    Let's pretend you won and there's no consciousness beyond mere interactions between collections of purely mathematical abstractions you call atoms. Where and how do those abstract interactions take place? What sets the rules for those interactions? Where are the values stored?
    hardbass · 1791122284 · focus · HN ↗
    I have had dreams where I could control it to some extent too. But its very rare and I don't much remember its experience.
    You may have misunderstood what I meant by interactions, I meant as in electrical, chemical, nuclear etc interactions of atoms. So the rules are naturally the usual physical laws of the universe. To the best of our knowledge, values are stored somewhere in our human body, we of course don't fully know the mechanism the brain works, but if you think some data exists totally outside our body, that's a big statement and you need to prove it.
    [deleted] · 1791124517 · focus · HN ↗
    [deleted]

Open on Hacker News to reply ↗

Unofficial Hacker News client; not affiliated with Y Combinator.