Thread

1. Svip · 1791108382 · focus · HN ↗

   If we talk about pain specifically, it is will established that physical and phycological pain can be observed on instruments; stress produces chemical reactions, that can make needles flicker on meters. Even plants can feel pain in an observable manner.

   As far as I am aware, the GPUs don't work harder, don't heat up more, and nothing in their mathematical equations are different, when the result of these vector calculations produce text, that to humans look like someone in pain. Whereas real pain is objectively observable, LLMs' pain - so far at least - is entirely subjectively observable.

   That being said, I'm a fan of Star Trek's depiction of Data in TNG and the Doctor in VOY fighting for their rights to be treated as equals to the biological crew; and while I support their plight, as far as I can remember, the shows never made a claim that their pain was observable by instruments, thus making the judgement an entirely subjective decision (particularly in the case of the Doctor). Though I'd be glad to be corrected in this matter.

   1. bondarchuk · 1791108635 · focus · HN ↗

      >nothing in their mathematical equations are different, when the result of these vector calculations produce text, that to humans look like someone in pain.

      So at least something is different, namely the text output changes (and therefore some internal state too, of course). I think your analogy is too simple, it does not have to be the case that the GPU has to act like the equivalent of the body for an LLM in this respect.

      1. danaris · 1791108795 · focus · HN ↗

         But this is basically just

         Human: "Act like you're in pain."

         Computer: "Aaugh! It hurts! Why?! No more!"

         Human: "OMG! The computer feels pain!!"

         1. bondarchuk · 1791109118 · focus · HN ↗

            Sure. And possibly it is indeed in pain then, if a computational process equivalent to that which makes up pain in animals is being performed. Or possibly not. But the criterium the GP poster laid out is not a valid way to decide that.

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