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The Forgetful CPU (Linux on M4)

267 points · 203 comments · signa11

  1. sscaryterry · · focus · HN ↗
    Imagine how big Apple would/could be if they embraced open hardware. They do have a moat here. macOS is so bloated, I hate it, but the hardware is just so much better than anything else.
    1. MBCook · · focus · HN ↗
      Apple is a vertical company. They don’t WANT to sell you hardware. They don’t want to sell you software.

      They only want to sell the whole package. You might as well ask the Catholic Church to start a rap music 8-track only record club. Same probability.

      The hardware is a means to an end, and nothing else to them.

      1. UltraSane · · focus · HN ↗
        But Apple could make a lot of money selling Linux servers with their CPUs.
        1. internet2000 · · focus · HN ↗
          Why would they want to? They make even more money selling their own computers with their CPUs.
          1. UltraSane · · focus · HN ↗
            The Server market is enormous with a much higher average selling price. It would make perfect sense for Apple to make servers if it meant more revenue and profit than they could make not doing it. There are rumors that Apple is planning a M8 based server in 2029.
            1. mbreese · · focus · HN ↗
              Apple tried to address the server market 20 years ago during the PowerPC days (and later Intel). Their Xserves were really well designed machines and worked well. And yes, they also ran Linux (Yellowdog, IIRC).

              It failed.

              But I think that they learned something really valuable. As a company, they don’t have a good understanding the server market or how to sell to it. Their premium product style just didn’t have a place in the race to the bottom server market.

              We had two in my grad school lab that we used as web servers. But that was the problem - it was a premium designed product that wasn’t any better of a web server than a plain (cheaper) Dell 1U box.

              Maybe things would be different now that they have a really unique chip. ARM as a whole ecosystem has more buy-in from other companies than PowerPC did. Their performance per watt and GPU design might make more of a difference this time around.

              But I can’t see Apple being able to release and sell a data center centric server. I think others might have a better chance.

              1. UltraSane · · focus · HN ↗
                The extremely important difference is that now Apple has some of the best CPUs in the world.
                1. SXX · · focus · HN ↗
                  Apple CPUs are good except most of server workloads benefit more from 128+ core monsters and not just fewer better cores.

                  MacOS is not a server OS either and actually maturing M* support in Linux will take years. And for inference Nvidia is years ahead of Apple.

                  So best Apple can hope for is some niche market.

                  1. t-3 · · focus · HN ↗
                    A lot of Apple's advantages come from tightly-linked memory and compute in a fully integrated design. I somewhat doubt that advantage can fully translate to servers, where features like hot-swappable memory are standard. Maybe they should skip mid-scale and head straight to mainframes?
                    1. wtallis · · focus · HN ↗
                      Hot-swappable memory is probably much more common in mainframes than mainstream servers. A typical x86 server still requires you to power it off before replacing DIMMs. Meanwhile, NVIDIA and AMD have both recently done some rather Apple-like server processors that solder CPU, GPU, and RAM to the same package/module.
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