Not everyone is good at coming up with a productive purpose on their own. A job lets those people adopt a purpose that gives their life some structure and meaning. Without it, people often waste away... all the people who die shortly after retirement, as an example. Add money into the mix, and that money can fund a drug habit as an escape for a lack of purpose. Drug overdoses spiked when the covid checks were sent out. Giving someone without purpose, and a drug habit, a bunch of free money can kill them.
I'm not opposed to the idea of UBI, I think we should at least set up the framework, so we can turn the dial up or down, depending on how things go with AI and robotics. The issues mentioned are some downsides I do think about and why I don't think it's as straightforward as "give everyone money and they'll start doing art."
I think universal healthcare alone would let a lot of people choose the job they want, instead of the job they feel they need.
I'm opposed to the idea of UBI entirely. I think we should take care of the poor and needy, but UBI, imo, isn't the way to get there. There are infinite jobs out there, the problem is paying for them. Go plant trees, build housing, teach children. If money happened that people could do whatever things and get paid for it, would be a better solution than free money from the sky for nothing.
> I think we should take care of the poor and needy, but UBI, imo, isn't the way to get there.
UBI is a better way to accomplish that! The alternative, and what we currently do, is to means test people to determine if they are worthy of getting assistance. The problem with that is:
1. someone has to do the means testing, so you have to run an expensive bureaucracy to administer that testing
2. people might be needy in different ways, so you create multiple of these bureaucratic programs to cater to different types of need
3. now, in order to get help, people have to navigate multiple bureaucratic programs to prove their need. This ends up missing people who need help the most
Think of UBI like a tax credit for people who work and an assistance program for people who are unable to prove their need -- all wrapped into a single efficient program with minimal administrative overhead and minimal paperwork.
Yes but the bureaucracy is the point. It gives people jobs and a mission in life and with AI to help, it doesn't have to suck. With UBI you end up reinventing government to decide what to do anyway. Should we build that dam or that bridge? Who gets to decide? It all comes down to conflict resolution.
Yes, there are plenty of government functions that still need to be done other than means testing the unfortunate. Benefit programs are a tiny part of what our government does... and don't really have anything to do with public works programs, which we still obviously would need.
pm90 · · focus · HN ↗
sphinxterai · · focus · HN ↗
gopher_space · · focus · HN ↗
As an employer, UBI and universal healthcare might slash payroll costs and eliminate most of the hiring process.
As a founder, UBI might remove the funding barrier to entry.
What's the downside, and who is it a downside for?
al_borland · · focus · HN ↗
I'm not opposed to the idea of UBI, I think we should at least set up the framework, so we can turn the dial up or down, depending on how things go with AI and robotics. The issues mentioned are some downsides I do think about and why I don't think it's as straightforward as "give everyone money and they'll start doing art."
I think universal healthcare alone would let a lot of people choose the job they want, instead of the job they feel they need.
fragmede · · focus · HN ↗
kube-system · · focus · HN ↗
UBI is a better way to accomplish that! The alternative, and what we currently do, is to means test people to determine if they are worthy of getting assistance. The problem with that is:
1. someone has to do the means testing, so you have to run an expensive bureaucracy to administer that testing
2. people might be needy in different ways, so you create multiple of these bureaucratic programs to cater to different types of need
3. now, in order to get help, people have to navigate multiple bureaucratic programs to prove their need. This ends up missing people who need help the most
Think of UBI like a tax credit for people who work and an assistance program for people who are unable to prove their need -- all wrapped into a single efficient program with minimal administrative overhead and minimal paperwork.
fragmede · · focus · HN ↗
kube-system · · focus · HN ↗